Yosemite Permit Reservation System For 2022

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syph3r
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Re: Yosemite Permit Reservation System For 2022

Post by syph3r »

No, because if there really is overbooking it means that not all the people issued permits actually show up. So you can increase the quota by the overbooking rate and still get the desired number of people on the trail.
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Sierra Miguel
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Re: Yosemite Permit Reservation System For 2022

Post by Sierra Miguel »

gary c. wrote: Mon Sep 20, 2021 9:20 am Your permit would not be issued to your name like it has been but to your account with the permit company.
You're still dodging the question of what makes a person unique in their system. What's to stop me from opening multiple accounts? Names aren't unique, multiple e-mail addresses and credit/debit card numbers are easy to get, phone numbers not much harder.

Are we suggesting that they store our PII? DOB? DL#? That sounds like another catastrophe waiting to happen. I'd rather the system stay the way it is, thankyouverymuch.
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Re: Yosemite Permit Reservation System For 2022

Post by Wandering Daisy »

Increasing quotas is unlikely to ever happen, regardless. I suspect that the NPS is not too worried about over-booking because it in effect reduces use, without them having to stick their necks out and reduce quotas.

A lot of what we do as backpackers is on the "honor system". I think the answer is to convince others that multiple booking is not very honorable. (If one chooses to overbook, PLEASE be partially honorable and cancel unused permits at least 2-3 days before the start).

Seriously, there were enough permits opening each day that even when my Inyo permit was cancelled; it was pretty easy to just get another permit somewhere else. That of course had to do a lot with the time period of after Labor Day; mid summer may be another story.
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Re: Yosemite Permit Reservation System For 2022

Post by x-countrycamper »

Backpacking to me seems to have almost always been on the honor system, I’ve never been asked to show my backpacking permit to anyone while our on the trail, granted I’ve only been maybe 8 times in my life and rarely in the heart of summer. As someone who only gets away to go backpacking usually only one trip a year, it’s a hassle having them change the system every year and I’m not a huge fan of using Recreation.gov but I imagine it will be much less work for the park rangers. There are already programs people have built for Recreation.gov that will scoop up any canceled camping reservations within seconds of being released. While I’m not saying the current system Yosemite has for backpacking is perfect, at least we aren’t having to compete against computer programs to grab last minute reservations / cancelations.
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Re: Yosemite Permit Reservation System For 2022

Post by Wandering Daisy »

rserve.gov can only "scoop up" cancelled reservations if people actually cancel. Campground costs are enough that more people are likely to want to get a refund, whereas backpack fees are low enough that many will just skip cancelling. Also, the system is not good at last minute cancellations. We have become a society that values "me", not "others" and the measly $5 refund is not much of an incentive. You do not get the reserve.gov fee back.

I do not understand why there is such a focus on daily quotas. Once people get on the trail, they all spread out or clump up sometimes, regardless of their starting date. Now, you have to physically "check-in". I say keep that requirement and put the no-shows back into reserve.gov for the next three days. That does not add any more than the overall quota and I doubt it would make much difference once on the trail. This way the no-show permit could be available for others a day or two in advanced on reserve.gov even if the NPS does not want to deal with actual walk-in permitting anymore.
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Re: Yosemite Permit Reservation System For 2022

Post by thegib »

"I do not understand why there is such a focus on daily quotas."
The issue, I think, is everyone's first night on the trail. It would get lumpy were you to allow a more flexible quota system.
By the second night you'd think there'd be enough disparity in fortitude and objectives to ensure good dispersion. The Wilderness Act requires that the park ensure that each of us can acheive a feeling of solitude, (am I making that up?). Daily quotas make sense to me. I'd like to cut out Commercial Pack Stock Operators - but that's another thread.
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Re: Yosemite Permit Reservation System For 2022

Post by Wandering Daisy »

I cannot go to the wilderness for solitude if I cannot get a permit in the first place. I disagree that everyone would bunch up the first night if a few no-shows get re-permitted for the next day or two. Make them a "pass through" type permit, first night required to be well past the first legal campsites. I never have expected solitude first night out anyway.

The problem with the current system is that it does not have an effective way of freeing up permits of no-shows. No-shows are NOT cancellations. They simply do not cancel nor show up at all. This totally wastes a permit slot. True walk-ins are the only way to go, in my opinion. SEKI allowed walk-ins this year. I hope it remains and option for all national parks and forests. For the last 20 years before the new system I used walk-in permits and never once was left without a trip as long as I was flexible regarding getting a day-of or day-after permit and had several trailhead options. It worked for a lot of us. And now they want to break it.

I do not know if the permit system was the cause, but I have never before run into so many illegal campsites and bad wilderness behavior as this year in Inyo NF when they quit having you stop in and physically pick up your permit, and hear the "talk". Yosemite and SEKI still required a physical pick-up of permits.
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Re: Yosemite Permit Reservation System For 2022

Post by mkbgdns »

why not place no-shows in next day's walkup pool? you could call after noon to see how many walkups available for next day, plan accordingly. quotas are not really about the number of people embarking on a given day, but about total traffic over time.
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Re: Yosemite Permit Reservation System For 2022

Post by SSSdave »

As we have noted before, some no shows also inconsiderately scam the system for lots of permits which they only expect to use a few if any for since reservation fees are low. The NP/NF knows this since they see no one picked up reserved permits and worse hide the data from the public so they won't be criticized by enthusiasts. There are numbers of simple ways as some have suggested to fix these issues. For instance if reserved permitees have not phoned a robot line where a person must type in their permit number within 24 to 72 hours of departure day, such permits could become available for walk-ins 24 hours in advance.

Also the names of no shows ought be penalized blocked for a period from obtaining permits in ALL NP/NF if they abuse the system more than a few times. Additionally since each group has entered the number of people in their group, upon calling in the robot line they ought also provide a number for those actually expected to go since many people drop out of such groups at short notice, especially if weather forecasts look unpleasant. Personally I would prefer original reserved permits actually include all adult names of those in a group that would then have to within say 2 weeks of departure date go to a website like our most excellent California campfire permit site and actually pass a modest policy test. Especially since COVID-19 has eliminated such.
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Re: Yosemite Permit Reservation System For 2022

Post by erutan »

Per WD's comment on annual passes:

Olympic National Park is $8 PER NIGHT per person like most national parks and desireable backpacking destinations on top of a flat $6 fee for the trip, and that was for buying them in person at the station (similar to the grand canyon, paria canyon, glacier, etc etc). A ranger at the Grand Canyon was baffled at how cheap backpacking permits were in the Sierra.

You can buy an annual backpacking permit for $45 a year which covers the per person per night fees, but not the $6 flat fee.

https://www.nps.gov/olym/planyourvisit/ ... ations.htm > wilderness fees accordion

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I was so used to free walk ups in the Sierra that I was a bit put off when SEKI charged me $15 each for two walkup 2-3 night trips back in '14. :p
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