A question about a seldom visited lake(s)

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cgundersen
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Re: A question about a seldom visited lake(s)

Post by cgundersen »

Hi Alaska,
I'll respond to your query regarding writing a paper on depth measurements: first, as far as I know in the biological sciences, there is no requirement for academic degrees for one to be an author (or, co-author) of a scientific manuscript. The advantage for degree holders is that their training usually includes explicit instruction in the "art" of preparing a paper for submission to a scientific journal. But, it's easy enough to consult journals' online instructions and if you follow protocol, you should be good. Second, at least in biology, you will not get far submitting a paper that reports "random" data (say, number of marmots per square mile or daily mosquito counts). Typically, you need to test a hypothesis. In your case, you might try something like: are lakes that appear deep blue really deep? And, here you could apply statistical analysis to the correlation between depth and the visible light emission spectrum and I'm pretty sure you'd find a place to publish your observations (regardless of the outcome). Yes, I know this ups the ante, but maybe there's someone else on HST who could help you with this "cool" endeavor. cameron
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Re: A question about a seldom visited lake(s)

Post by AlaskaIsCold »

dave54 wrote:Call the ranger station and ask to speak to a fisheries biologist or hydrologist. If anyone had the data it would be them.

Locally, many years ago, the FS fish bios packed into several wilderness lakes, and with a packraft took water temperatures at various depths using a weighted line and recording thermometer. Developed thermocline maps for the larger lakes. The data is probably still sitting on a server someplace, long untouched.

As far as I can find, there are no bathymetry for any but the largest natural lakes in California. There is a way to do it from multispectral satellite imagery. I have not done it myself.
I just got off the phone with them, they were really nice (eastern sierra center is my favorite one of them all but nobody at the center knew the answer, and a few of them didn't know about the lake at all.
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Mine is Tulainyo Lake at Sunset.
I do hope to make it back there one day.
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Re: A question about a seldom visited lake(s)

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You can get a spool of measuring line, and weight the end. Light, cheap, and accurate. I believe Greenlee makes it as well as some other electrical supply manufacturers. It's used to pull through conduits to measure wire lengths.
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Re: A question about a seldom visited lake(s)

Post by ryanerb »

@AlaskaIsCold, or anyone else, any update on this? Sorry to bring up a old thread, but was just curious...(and didn't want to create a new thread...)
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Re: A question about a seldom visited lake(s)

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ryanerb wrote: Tue Jul 09, 2019 8:31 am @AlaskaIsCold, or anyone else, any update on this? Sorry to bring up a old thread, but was just curious...(and didn't want to create a new thread...)
I tried to get up there last sept... but I wasn't strong enough, I needed to train more, but I am going to attempt it a second time this september again. However I am worried that getting up and over Russel-carrilon col is just a little too much for me. Coming up from whitney portal was just too much. If I cant make it happen this time around I might need to consider going around the long way from either Cottonwood Lakes or Keysearge Pass.
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Everyone has a happy place.
Mine is Tulainyo Lake at Sunset.
I do hope to make it back there one day.
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Re: A question about a seldom visited lake(s)

Post by Wandering Daisy »

Are you sure your problem is "training" rather than difficulty acclimating to altitude? Perhaps about 3 days car camping specifically acclimating would help. For example first night at about 5,000 feet (any lower level campground along Hwy 395), second night at about 7-8,00 feet (campgrounds on the way to South Lake) and third at 10,000 feet (Cottonwood Lakes or Whitney Portal), THEN start your hike in, taking it easy for the first few days.

It is a lot less exertion to stay on trails, rather than do difficult steep off-trail Corillion Col. Kearsarge Pass route still has a lot of elevation gain and permits may be difficult to get. Either way, Kearsarge or Cottonwood, add a lot of distance. The only problem I see with Cottonwood Pass, is that you have to drop down quite low on Rock Creek. There is quite an elevation gain to then get to Crabtree, with limited water sources. I hit this section last year in the afternoon and it was really hot and miserable; best to do this in the early morning. There is a use-trail up Wallace Creek. Coming in from Onion Meadow you have Kearsarge Pass and Forrester Pass and then up over another hump before you reach Wallace Creek. Although there is a good trail up Shepherd Pass, the route is quite grueling with very limited water the first half. You could also go up the main trail (to Trail Crest) from Whitney Portal. Lone Pine Lake is not in the Whitney zone, so you could camp there first night. Then second night at Trail Camp. Over the pass next day. Again, permits may be a big problem with this. All considered, I think Cottonwood Pass would be the most reasonable, given permit issues.
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Re: A question about a seldom visited lake(s)

Post by AlaskaIsCold »

Wandering Daisy wrote: Sat Mar 14, 2020 8:56 am Are you sure your problem is "training" rather than difficulty acclimating to altitude? Perhaps about 3 days car camping specifically acclimating would help. For example first night at about 5,000 feet (any lower level campground along Hwy 395), second night at about 7-8,00 feet (campgrounds on the way to South Lake) and third at 10,000 feet (Cottonwood Lakes or Whitney Portal), THEN start your hike in, taking it easy for the first few days.

It is a lot less exertion to stay on trails, rather than do difficult steep off-trail Corillion Col. Kearsarge Pass route still has a lot of elevation gain and permits may be difficult to get. Either way, Kearsarge or Cottonwood, add a lot of distance. The only problem I see with Cottonwood Pass, is that you have to drop down quite low on Rock Creek. There is quite an elevation gain to then get to Crabtree, with limited water sources. I hit this section last year in the afternoon and it was really hot and miserable; best to do this in the early morning. There is a use-trail up Wallace Creek. Coming in from Onion Meadow you have Kearsarge Pass and Forrester Pass and then up over another hump before you reach Wallace Creek. Although there is a good trail up Shepherd Pass, the route is quite grueling with very limited water the first half. You could also go up the main trail (to Trail Crest) from Whitney Portal. Lone Pine Lake is not in the Whitney zone, so you could camp there first night. Then second night at Trail Camp. Over the pass next day. Again, permits may be a big problem with this. All considered, I think Cottonwood Pass would be the most reasonable, given permit issues.
How do you handle the altitude?
This time around I was going to car camp a few days ahead of time, one night at grandview campground and then two nights at the white mountain trail head.
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Everyone has a happy place.
Mine is Tulainyo Lake at Sunset.
I do hope to make it back there one day.
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Re: A question about a seldom visited lake(s)

Post by Wandering Daisy »

The benefit of sleeping at altitude is different for each person. In mountaineering, standard acclimating is done by increasing altitude by 1-2,000 feet at a time. The old saying is "climb high, sleep low". Sleeping at the end of the White Mountain road is not useful if all you do is get sick and not sleep well. May be better to stay at Grandview, and just do a bit of easy day-hiking around White Mountain trailheads. A lot of people camp at the Cottonwood campgrounds and then just do easy paced day hikes around the area. Sleeping at high trailheads is OK IF you can get a good nights sleep. Each person is different. Any elevation is too high if you are getting altitude sick. The best acclimation is over long time periods. I always do better on end-of-season trips. It really takes about a month to physically acclimate and you loose it about the same rate. If you are able to do many higher altitude trips over the summer, and not go back to sea level for more than about a week at a time, then you do become well acclimated by the end of the season. Not sure that would be feasible for you.
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Re: A question about a seldom visited lake(s)

Post by bobby49 »

"How do you handle the altitude?"

That is a standard question, but there is no standard answer. For decades, I led a bunch of friends on a fast dayhike up and down the main Mount Whitney Trail, east side. Very quickly, I saw what caused success, and what caused failure. Overall, there was about a 90-95% success rate for them. First, I told them to get ready at home, and that they needed to run routinely enough that they could run for 30 minutes without stopping. It didn't have to be fast, but they had to go for 30 minutes. Obviously running faster accomplishes more. The entire group would head out from home in one or two cars, and we would car camp around 10,000 feet the first night, and then continue toward Lone Pine. The next night would be spent at Whitney Portal. The next day would be up and down the trail. As a young man, I was able to zoom up the trail in 4 hrs 15 minutes. As an older man, it was more than twice that. Once the trail permit system got so tight, I shifted over into driving into the White Mountains for the first night from home to sleep at 8500 feet. Then I would spend an entire day strolling around, just to make sure that my body was feeling right for that elevation. Then the following day I would drive to the north end of the road and dayhike White Mountain Peak. If my body had a problem, I wanted to know it there, and not on Mount Whitney. I would sleep the last night there at 8500 and then head to Lone Pine for my Mount Whitney permit. I had done this for years and years, so I had it wired, so to speak. Meanwhile, I have summited on much taller peaks. Everybody functions differently at high elevation, so you just have to get out there and work it. This summer, as long as the national virus problem eases up, I expect to summit on Whitney for the 44th time.

If you are solo hiking around at high elevation, I recommend that you get a small pulse-oximeter ($20 ?). This will allow you to check yourself periodically to make sure that you are not wandering into the point of collapse for pulse and for lung function.
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