I STOPPED HIKING THE PCT BECAUSE OF TOXIC MA

[Cross Country]

When hiking (backpacking) I don't remember even one time feeling competitive. Surfing on a wave is really fun but surfing in it's entirety is ten times as competitive as it is fun. It's the only sport I played where if you don't win you don't get to play at all. If you don't beat out severl people to catch a wave you might catch NO waves in a day. I played thousands of competitive games. In those games I was very competitive. Downhill Skiing on the other hand is just fun. It's the most fun of any of the MANY activities in which I engaged during my lifetime.
For me:
Most competitive- surfing.
Most fun - downhill skiing.
My first love - slo pitch softball.
Least competitive- backpacking.
Best memories - backpacking.

[Tom_H]

I've spent a few days pondering this before posting. I still have mixed feelings. In general, there are an awful lot of men who treat women with undeserved disrespect, men who need to change.

At the same time, there is something to be said for being the master/(mistress) of your own destiny, for owning your own feelings and not projecting them onto others.

I have a feeling that some of what the woman experienced is very true. At the same time, I think it may be entirely possible that this becomes a convenient rationalization to explain away other issues she may have been experiencing and dealing with. There could be numerous other factors which led her to throw in the towel.

In any case, it is her story to tell and she deserves a certain degree of others respecting her point of view. I also hope that she might do some reflecting on ways she could have better coped and ways she could have continued while ignoring such issues and maintaining a positive degree of self-esteem.

I am sad for her that it was not a good experience. Being in the wilderness always calmed my soul and gave me a sense of peace far beyond what was possible in civilization. I wish she could have experienced the same.

[chulavista]

If it makes her feel better, I'd make horse jokes to any dude who bragged to me about a "triple crown".

It's well past time for permits with fees for PCT through hikers entering NPS units. Appalachian Trail has that already and no one whines about it anymore.

[creekfeet]

When hiking (backpacking) I don't remember even one time feeling competitive. Surfing on a wave is really fun but surfing in it's entirety is ten times as competitive as it is fun.

Interesting take. In some ways I look at surfing and backpacking in the same vein. If I'm surfing Swami's, Steamer's, Malizoo, etc. I know I'm going to have to compete for waves, just like I know I'm going to have to compete for solitude if I hike any portion of the JMT. And while it's not as easy as escaping crowds while backpacking, there's no shortage of places to surf in California where you can get waves pretty much all to yourself, and surfing without a crowd is more of an artistic expression than a competitive endeavor.

The interesting thing about surfing as a hobby is it's one of the few things that's incredibly physically fun in the moment. Backpacking's great because of the introspection that goes along with it, but the physical act of hauling all your possessions as much as a vertical mile in a day isn't exactly a thrill. But walking on water, that's something everyone can enjoy.

[Hobbes]

You certainly CAN require PCT permits and quotas in the Sierra! Just have the PCT general permit for everything EXCEPT the Sierra.

I'm a little confused - I'm not sure there is an official "PCT permit". Rather, the $50 fee the PCTA charges is for coordinating the paperwork among the dozens of different national, state & local parks and forests the trail passes through. That way, hikers are issued a single permit recognized by each separate legal jurisdiction. In this context, it's important to distinguish between 'honoring' a document issued by a NGO, as opposed to an official permit produced by the respective department(s).

However, if one wanted, they could simply hike/camp in areas that don't require permits (eg the first 250 miles of the desert section), and then personally pick up permits in areas that do require them. Also, many zones that do require permits are self-issue at the TH, so that makes it easier as well to just keep trucking along.

Since we @ HST are approaching this issue from the perspective of the high Sierra, we're conditioned by the high demand and extremely officious process of getting into the parks/wilderness. But, we should be cautious about projecting that experience to other areas, most of which are wide open.

So, back to controlling traffic through the Sierra. Right now, anyone can enter the trail below the JMT @ Trail pass which doesn't even have a quota. Or, go in via Cottonwood or (New) Army, which do have quotas, but are extremely high. The further south you go, the less control via permit/quota. In this situation, the parks/forests further north cannot control exits, since the permits - self-issue or office - are already issued.

In order to be able to control traffic through the entire Sierra, the entire range would need to come under the type of local entry/exit control mandated for the Whitney zone. From personal experience, while that may (sort of) work for a single trail where a ranger can be parked @ the TH, it would literally require a police presence across multi-trailheads north & south. Also, while the WZ has (grudging) public support due to its single, high use nature, I don't see how it would be possible to start restricting access south/north of the Sierra just to control flow through the entire JMT section.

Lastly, to bring up the classic Valley argument against access control, you are advocating restrictions derived from your own personal experience. That is, as if you personally have the right to continue to use the park in the fashion that you may have become accustomed to. In actuality, the right to peaceful & quiet enjoyment you are attempting to assert doesn't actually exist. Rather, it's a form of discrimination aimed at denying comparable enjoyment to those who may not have been fortunate enough to have been born in an earlier era where peace & quiet prevailed.

Throw in some of the hot button triggers covered in the OP, such as age, gender, orientation, race, ethnicity, religion, income, nationality, etc - fabricated or not - and Katy bar the door. (Ex: students off for the 2-3 month summer break - why are they to be barred from the Sierra during their one open period during the year?) Also, please note I'm not personally accusing you of this, it's just the general argument made in response to any attempts at restricting access to public areas, whether it be the coast, deserts or mountains. It's why the Valley is a parking lot in summer - the park cannot do anything about it.

[markskor]

Just some PCT stats -
Over the last several years, there has been a significant increase in demand for permits to hike in the Sierra Nevada.
To protect access and preserve the quality of the experience, permits will be limited.
Some history - In 2016, there were 5657 permits issued - 3164 NOBO - 334 SOBO - 2157 section hikers, all passing thru the Sierra sections.
For the 2018 season, PCTA issued permits in this region will be held at the 2016 - 2017 levels....5,500?
Of these, 1400 permits are available for section hikes passing through the JMT overlap section from Mt. Whitney to Tuolumne Meadows. 600 of those permits may start at trailheads within the Southern Sierra from Kennedy Meadows South to Sonora Pass.
https://www.pcta.org/our-work/trail-and ... tatistics/

PCT HIKER DEMOGRAPHICS.
SEX | 57% Male, 42% Female,
AGE | 2% <20, 19% 20-24, 29% 25-29, 16% 30-35, 8% 35-39, 8% 40-49, 10% 50-59, 7% 60-69, 0.5% >70
AVERAGE AGE | 34
https://www.halfwayanywhere.com/trails/ ... rvey-2017/

[Harlen]

Lastly, to bring up the classic Valley argument against access control, you are advocating restrictions derived from your own personal experience. That is, as if you personally have the right to continue to use the park in the fashion that you may have become accustomed to. In actuality, the right to peaceful & quiet enjoyment you are attempting to assert doesn't actually exist. Rather, it's a form of discrimination aimed at denying comparable enjoyment to those who may not have been fortunate enough to have been born in an earlier era where peace & quiet prevailed.

The rare voice of the wildlife conservationists among us, crying in the wilderness of human not-so-special interests:

What about the bleeding wildlife?! ... Habitat values?! ... A viable, sustainable Ecosystem ?! High human numbers are antithetical to these.
It is the natural world that has been discriminated against.

[chulavista]

Lastly, to bring up the classic Valley argument against access control, you are advocating restrictions derived from your own personal experience.

There would be minimal problems if the PCT hikers were subject to the same regulations/permitting as everyone else. They could alter a few of the permit processes to make it easier for thru-hikers (and everyone else!). I get that some PCT hikers wouldn't bother to follow the rules, pay the fees, etc., if they were enforced, but backcountry enforcement is a separate issue.

[schmalz]

It's weird to be arguing about PCT people bypassing the Sierra permit system when you can enter via Trail Pass which has no quota.

[Wandering Daisy]

Obviously, you also make the PCT entry trailheads subject to quotas, just like are most of the Sierra trailheads.

The point is that the resource is supposed to be managed to protect the wilderness, not to maximize backpacking. The entire idea of "no quota" trailheads needs to be revised in light of the incredible demand on the PCT. And perhaps more of the "wanna-be's" would be weeded out if new permits had to be obtained if they left the trailhead overnight -the same rule that now applies to everyone else.

Hobbes, I just do not buy your "throw up the hands" and let it all fall apart attitude; stick your head in the sand and hope it will all pass. And it is not just PCT pressure on the wilderness- it is all sorts of "routes" popularized on the internet. Wise people in the past fought hard to establish the wilderness, we simply cannot be too lazy and self-absorbed not to work hard at protecting it for future generations. And yes, if it puts a crimp on my own trips, I accept that.