I STOPPED HIKING THE PCT BECAUSE OF TOXIC MA

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Lumbergh21
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Re: I STOPPED HIKING THE PCT BECAUSE OF TOXIC MA

Post by Lumbergh21 »

Jimr wrote:I suppose we will eventually end up extinct one way or another. We will probably be the first species to leave through self-extinction.
I'd say disease is the most likely slate cleaner. Even with our "advanced" science and medicine (relative to the early 20th century or 14th century), the increased mobility of the human population could lead to a previously unknown and fatal disease wiping out over 1/3 the population. If one of the high mortality rate hemorrhagic diseases - Ebola being the most famous - became airborne like the flu virus we could see 1/2 of the population or more die. The Spanish Influenza epidemic of 1918 or the Black Death Plague from 1347 to 1351 might seem horrific and ancient history, but nature seems to have a way of regulating itself, and the next plague may make those epidemics seem minor. Because even with all of our modern science and medicine we still are powerless to stop a simple virus.

Wow, this is off-topic.
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Re: I STOPPED HIKING THE PCT BECAUSE OF TOXIC MA

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robow8 wrote:I didn't read the article, and I read about half of the posts. But it reminds me of a story I heard long ago.

There was an old man traveling down a path. A young man coming from the other way asked him, "how is the next town?"
"How was the town you came from?" asked the old man.
"It was the worst town I've ever been in" Replied the young man. "People were rude, and selfish, and not friendly at all. I couldn't wait to leave"
The old man listened, shaking his head. "I think that you'll find the next town is much the same."
Continuing his travels, the old man soon came upon another young man.
"How is the next town?" the young man asked.
"How was the town you came from?" asked the old man.
"Oh, it was the nicest town I've ever been in. The people were so friendly, and kind, and helpful, that I was sad to leave."
The old man listened, nodding his head. "I think that you'll find the next town is much the same."
Exactly.

The headmaster of the school I attended as a child had story that stuck with me. While I don't remember it exactly, it went something like this.

These teenagers come across this bum with a long unruly beard and mustache passed out on a bench, and being not the most upstanding children they decide to play a prank. They go to a nearby store and buy a piece of the stinkiest Limburgher cheese that they then smear all over the bum's mustache. The next morning the bum wakes up and starts sniffing. Gawd, it stinks here! he exclaims as he gets up. Wandering down the street he passes a well dressed young lady and thinks, Gawd she stinks too! Later he passes a clean shaven business man and sniffs. He stinks too! Spying a beautiful red rose bush, he walks up to it and sticks his nose right into a rose bloom, breathing in deeply. Gawd! even the flowers around here stink! This whole world stinks!
Moral of the story: if you think everything stinks, you might just be smelling your upper lip.
My apologies to my now deceased headmaster for butchering his much longer, more entertaining, and more colorful version.
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Re: I STOPPED HIKING THE PCT BECAUSE OF TOXIC MA

Post by Hobbes »

Not really ot. We have sm, over use and tech impacting the sierra.

Who else or where else is this being discussed?

As far as disease, maybe but prob not. Dna analysis though complex is finite. Cpu power keeps doubling. Quantum states will be orders more powerful. Gene therapy can isolate harmful pathogens.

Take all this together, how does land use and resource mgmt come into play? SM is just the tip of whats coming down the pike.
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Re: I STOPPED HIKING THE PCT BECAUSE OF TOXIC MA

Post by mrphil »

She lived a life with a chip on her shoulder, likely chose her sexual orientation at least partially because of a chip on her shoulder, surrounded herself with other like-minded people with chips on their shoulders, came in with a chip on her shoulder, conducted herself around others with a chip on her shoulder, left with a chip on her shoulder, and now has one more confirmation in her mind that it's everyone else's perspective that's the problem. She was mired in, and manifested, her outcome. It's unreasonable to think it would turn out any differently. What you see is what you get.

I read her essay, but I also looked at her pictures. She was out of shape, call it what it is, fat. She was largely surrounded by people that weren't, both men and women. Weight has lot's of factors, be that genetic predisposition, low self-esteem...whatever, but it also tends to cloud that person's outlook and often that outlook ends up projected on to others as their opinion (shoot first, ask questions later). Some people can look past that and see the individual, their soul, them as a person, if you will. It's ideal, but rare. But social norms are such that we're conditioned to cast judgments upon individuals based on looks. The PCT is not a magic parallel universe where all things in society are suspended. It's actually a place where athleticism, strength, endurance, the rules governing natural selection, are amplified, and where those are the determining factors in who succeeds and who fails. You take that and add it to a bad attitude, and I can guarantee that she was judged, and not just by men, but by everyone.
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Re: I STOPPED HIKING THE PCT BECAUSE OF TOXIC MA

Post by apeman45 »

I read her entire essay and I don't think sexual orientation or her weight had that much to do with her experience. Throughout her essay there was not one mention of a sunrise or sunset, a description of a one on one experience with an animal, the freedom one experiences when they are alone, a celebration of making her miles, that first big vista, that feeling you get when you get your legs and you know you can do it, not anything about nature. I think she just went in with the wrong frame of mind and long distance hiking wasn't her thing and wasn't at all what she thought it would be. It's sometimes hard, lonely, and there is a constant voice that is telling you it's no big deal to quit and go home. Many many people respond to that voice and go home. It's no big deal. And you know what - that's a good thing because the backcountry is getting way too crowded.

I also want to apologize to anyone I've ever offended on the trail. To those that have offended me - no need to apologize. I'm not out there for social reasons other than "Did you see that sunset last night!"
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Re: I STOPPED HIKING THE PCT BECAUSE OF TOXIC MA

Post by Jimr »

Lumbergh21 wrote:
Jimr wrote:I suppose we will eventually end up extinct one way or another. We will probably be the first species to leave through self-extinction.
I'd say disease is the most likely slate cleaner. Even with our "advanced" science and medicine (relative to the early 20th century or 14th century), the increased mobility of the human population could lead to a previously unknown and fatal disease wiping out over 1/3 the population. If one of the high mortality rate hemorrhagic diseases - Ebola being the most famous - became airborne like the flu virus we could see 1/2 of the population or more die. The Spanish Influenza epidemic of 1918 or the Black Death Plague from 1347 to 1351 might seem horrific and ancient history, but nature seems to have a way of regulating itself, and the next plague may make those epidemics seem minor. Because even with all of our modern science and medicine we still are powerless to stop a simple virus.

Wow, this is off-topic.
Yeah, the idea of self-extinction may have had it's day when full on nuclear exchanges were still thought to be survivable. That sort of threat may rear it's ugly head again, or not. Maybe that's toxic MA at it's extreme?
If you don't know where you're going, then any path will get you there.
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Re: I STOPPED HIKING THE PCT BECAUSE OF TOXIC MA

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This has been a fascinating series of posts. I would have to agree with some, that the nature of a through-hike like the PCT actually tends to attract a number of individuals that, (and here goes the generalities), tend to be less inclined towards the deferential nature of our society at large. That being said, the back country, like everywhere else humans tend to congregate, has all sorts of personality types regularly on display. While the following may not represent the concept of Toxic Masculinity per se, they sure have bugged me over the years.

Mileage guy: Anything less than 25 miles a day, off-trail and uphill, and you might as well be setting up a tent at your local city park. This is the same guy that reaches a physical location that less than 1 millionth of a percent of humanity will ever see, stands there for a minute or so, and then its on to the next one – got no time to waste. Personally I’m a plodder – what I lack in speed I make up for by not going very far. And I can sit for awhile just staring out at the landscape.

Schedule guy: Every step, waypoint, turn and water spot is carefully charted out to the minute. If you ever want to watch someone chew through their pencil, explain how you want to stop so you can take 25 different pictures of a flower – the same flower you’ve passed 100 times. But this time the light/location/backdrop/your own personal preference is so much different than the last 99.

Gear guy: I have no qualm with folks with money – most have worked very hard for it and have earned every penny. But I read the magazines, gear lists, and follow trends. When you set up a tent/bag/sleeping pad combo that costs more than my mortgage and car notes combined: I’m aware. Please feel free to tell me the value you get from these fine products, but I don’t need to know the retail list price. There was a time when Sears was my outdoor emporium and Big 5 was considered a specialty retailer.

Not Ready guy: This guy thinks living in a two-story house and a walk to the corner a couple of times a week is adequate prep for 5 miles at 10,000 feet. You can spot them by seeing the dust cloud on the trail from their shuffling feet, mouth agape and water gone – less than one-hour in and miles to go.

The Clueless Wanderer: The newest version of this sub-species can quickly be identified when they ask, with some combination of panic and incredulousness, “what do mean there is no signal out here? I’ve charted everything out on my phone.” That’s when you can hand them a pencil and a topo (the original google earth) and remind them that at least they can still take some pretty nice photos with that high-tech quasi paperweight they will be carrying for the next few days.

The Moocher Ultralighter: Now anybody that can not only survive, but thrive in the back county with 20 pounds or so on their back has my undying admiration – and a great bit of envy as well. But the moocher is not that person. They’re carrying only 25 pounds, will remind you of that fact repeatedly, but then also turn around and say “hey, I forgot my _____, can I use yours when you’re done?” Or “who needs all this fancy stuff?” But asks five minutes later “can I borrow yours?” I’ve helped folks in need over the years with a little extra food or fuel, clean dry socks, and even a spare shirt or two; but it no longer bothers me when the mooch calls me an azzhole under his breath simply because I exercised my prerogative to say no.

The Expert: One semester at a JC and we’ve got ourselves a bona fide authority on the flora and fauna, geology, geography, and any number of the various –gies out there. I love to learn about and explore various items passing by on the trail, but I don’t hit the high route for a dissertation in alpine botany.

So these are just a few of the types over the years that have nudged me along – and there are plenty of others. I’m also sure that at one point or another I’ve been every one of them, or some irritating variation.

But the one thing I have learned over the years is the truth of the adage that “you’ve got to hike your own hike.” If you don’t, well sorry, I feel for ya. If, on the other hand, you get back to your trailhead, or some other waypoint, and know that every step was yours; that every breath was your own exchange with nature, then, all I can do is reach out my hand and say “welcome to the back county.”

May you always have tight lines, clear skies, and an open path ahead of you.
May your path be clear, the skies be sunny, and your lines stay tight
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Re: I STOPPED HIKING THE PCT BECAUSE OF TOXIC MA

Post by RichardCullip »

Me thinks she packed her victimhood and it got heavier and heavier until she couldn't carry it any longer. Finally, it was so heavy she had to bail.
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Re: I STOPPED HIKING THE PCT BECAUSE OF TOXIC MA

Post by balance »

The people I encounter hiking in the Sierra Nevada are generally pretty nice.

My biggest gripe is the firebugs who leave soot and carbon charred rocks that will carry black scars for hundreds of years.
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Re: I STOPPED HIKING THE PCT BECAUSE OF TOXIC MA

Post by Hobbes »

I'm guessing Flamingo hasn't commented because he personally knows some of the key players in the long distance hiking community. Many of these are board members on the PCTA, while others play a major role in trail politics. One of these is Donna Saufley who runs Hiker Heaven (https://www.facebook.com/donna.saufley https://www.facebook.com/HikerHeaven/ http://hikerheaven.com/). She was instrumental in advocating the 50/hiker per day rule to smooth out bulges in hiker traffic.

Anyway, if you zoom out and (anthropologically) view the hiking community as this sort of self enclosed eco-system, with its own distinct cultural norms, and (unspoken) rules of conduct, it's quite obvious is was content "doing its own thing". Sure, there was/is a bro culture, but the women hikers dealt with it, competed and ultimately prevailed.

However, somewhere along the way, Wild exposed an 'outsider' element that was seized by a mythological idea that obscured the core reality. In a weird way, it's almost like this new brigade 'culturally appropriated' the hiker community by trying to impose its own ideals and expectations. Adding a commercial bent, some realized they could profit from selling the dream to other, non traditional hikers, who would then too embrace expectations that inevitably weren't realized. The result of all this, as we've seen, is the Carrot Quinn crew, along with some of her disciples, such as Vanessa who was the author of the anchor post.

OK, so that's the back story: small, isolated culture governed by its own rules of behavior. Everyone knows and either abides or drops out. Outsider comes in, exploits the community for commercial gain, then mounts large(r) public exposure denouncing said practices. Question: is that the end of the story? And this is were it gets interesting, because Donna S is one vocal, hard assed mofo. Once she gets her teeth into something, she doesn't let go. (Her trail name is L-Rod; short for Lightning Rod - you do the math.) Which brings us to the point of the counter-attack.

First, confirmation of existing culture, with women not only overcoming, but establishing themselves as dominant players:

https://www.instagram.com/p/BfMWY7aADyj ... ance_hikes

NOC: When men are sexist to me on trail I can usually out hike them; however, it's going to happen, even on routes you do alone. I was in nowhere New Mexico, cross country, and some guy said "What's a pretty girl like you doing out here?" Like that has anything to do with anything. I just laughed and kept walking. They think you're crazy ya know? And it makes you thick skinned and a hell raiser. You know you've got the power to say **** You to the bros! Hike Like Hell babes.

NOC: I lived and hiked with CQ, she stalked me in 2014, she changed her start date to mine without me knowing it. My life has been complicated ever since. Anyone who gets close to her knows what she is and it's not good. I'm guessing you two aren't close. I also had a rough youth, her and I bonded over a similar past. She has also accused me of bullying her. She has accused multiple people in the community of bullying when they haven't. You must think I'm some privileged white girl? Lint was the only one to stand up to her. Did he do it graciously? No! But since she has the biggest platform out of anyone, people take her word as gospel. There are many people who know what she is but are afraid to come out fearing her obsessive smear tactics, and they aren't willing "to go there."

Then, the first salvo of perhaps the one person you don't want to piss off:

donnasaufley: I fear that the people who find her stuff brilliant are not members of the hiking Community or know any of the players involved. Hiking Community is known for being supportive of each other. I have been involved in hiking Community for over 20 years hosting the majority of the hikers on the Pacific Crest Trail. Never have I seen anyone do such an all-out attack and try to destroy someone as CT has. Her behavior is the complete antithesis to what the hiking Community is all about. We call out fakes and phonies when they show up. CQ has done some deceptive things but don't reflect well on the hiking community, like taking money from her fans on false pretenses. Yes she is an anarchist, she is a wounded person, and she is also very vindictive and destructive. People who know her in a hiking Community are standing up and calling CQ out for the abusive bully she is.

So, it will be interesting to see where this goes. My guess is the CQ contingent eventually fades and goes off to find some other social justice cause. Hiking will remain as a primary physical challenge, with women welcome, but all subject to the same basic requirements without any preferential treatment.
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