Day hiking with overnight gear

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longri
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Day hiking with overnight gear

Post by longri »

It's "technically" illegal in Yosemite, or so I've been told by wilderness rangers. I've never been able to find the rule printed anywhere official but I trust that it is against the rules in Yosemite and, in theory, could be enforced at the discretion of a ranger.

But what about other parks? Or National Forests? Does Inyo care if I day hike with my sleeping bag and tent?

I can get a permit. They're not that expensive. It's one less permit available for someone actually planning to spend the night in the backcountry. And it's kind of odd to specify the same entry/exit dates and the number of nights as "0".
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iHartMK
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Re: Day hiking with overnight gear

Post by iHartMK »

Why would it be illegal? I sometimes day hike with overnight gear to condition myself for an upcoming trip or to see how new gear feels on my back (ie new backpack or sleeping bag or tent etc.) How would they know what's in your backpack?
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AlmostThere
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Re: Day hiking with overnight gear

Post by AlmostThere »

Well, let's think about how many requests they get for permits in Yosemite... almost 30k applied for the JMT permit in 2016, about 3k were handed out. That's a lot of frustrated people who might just strap on a backpack and when caught, pretend they are dayhiking. My guess is that rangers heard that enough that they hit the tipping point and banned it.
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Re: Day hiking with overnight gear

Post by markskor »

Saddlebag Lake ferry - They charge an extra $5 if you are carrying an overnight backpack -
While a day pack is free. They decide.
Pretty sure they learned this from the airlines.
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Re: Day hiking with overnight gear

Post by Wandering Daisy »

There are some little-used or non-quota trails where I would not feel bad to take a permit. And there are that do not even require a permit. I feel that we have a personal responsibility not to take a permit from someone who would then be denied their overnight trip.

The rangers do have the right to check your pack for a bear can. So if your pack looks like an overnight pack, they may ask you to show your bear can. I do not blame the rangers for being skeptical. I am sure there are more people who plan to stealth camp than a few like you who choose to carry full gear on a day hike (most would consider this masochistic!). Either way, it is not legal. If you pack is big, but does not contain stuff that you could use on an overnight, then I doubt they would ticket you. I am sure you could figure out some "dummy" substitutes that would work to simply try out weight distribution.

Personally I have no desire whatsoever to day hike with a full pack to get in shape. There are so many other fun ways to get in shape! Sometimes, on a very long day-hike, where I think I may get caught in poor weather or benighted, I take my bivy sack, but no sleeping bag. Seems if you are really testing a new pack, sleeping bag or tent you would want to actually do an overnight anyway.
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Re: Day hiking with overnight gear

Post by maverick »

Just place other gear, replacing your sleeping bag and tent (similar weight), you shouldn't have any issues. I assume this is just for training purposes, if so, then just take food and extra clothing to place between water bottles or smaller sand bags for weight, that you can strategically place in your pack, it will allow you can carry a smaller pack (day pack) too. I take water containers on a hike and just empty them on my descend back to the car/campsite, no need to stress the knees unnecessarily with steep descents.
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I don't give out specific route information, my belief is that it takes away from the whole adventure spirit of a trip, if you need every inch planned out, you'll have to get that from someone else.

Have a safer backcountry experience by using the HST ReConn Form 2.0, named after Larry Conn, a HST member: http://reconn.org
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Re: Day hiking with overnight gear

Post by dave54 »

Most non-wilderness National Forest trails do not require a permit or quota, and many wilderness areas have no permits or quotas.

IMHO -- if an area has quotas, permits, and pre-approved itineraries it is no longer a wilderness. There are too many other places where you can just go and hike without getting official 'permission'.
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Re: Day hiking with overnight gear

Post by ndpanda »

longri wrote:It's "technically" illegal in Yosemite, or so I've been told by wilderness rangers. I've never been able to find the rule printed anywhere official but I trust that it is against the rules in Yosemite and, in theory, could be enforced at the discretion of a ranger.
Those rangers are talking out of their nether regions. Regardless of whether or not they feel "tipping points" have been reached, park personnel can't arbitrarily enact regulations and enforce them as they see fit. Park regulations are formulated through a process and must be published in the Superintendent's Compendium of Designations, Closures, Permit Requirements and Other Restrictions Imposed Under Discretionary Authority, specific to each park. Camping and food storage regulations in Yosemite are covered by its current Compendium in Section 36 CFR §2.10, found on pages 15-18. All the requirements listed specifically refer to overnight use.

Nowhere in the extremely detailed Compendium is there a stipulation as to what day hikers may or may not carry. If you are a day hiker who wishes to fly a kite in Yosemite, you will learn that kite flying is limited to kites measuring less than 1300 square inches and tethered by string less than 150 feet in length. If you are a day hiker who wishes to forage for food in Yosemite, you will learn that you are limited to gathering one pint of huckleberries per day, for immediate consumption. (If you want to gorge, look for Himalayan blackberries; you're permitted an unlimited quantity.) But if you are a day hiker who wants to carry an anvil or anything else in your pack for conditioning, you are home free. The sole provision related to equipment that any hikers are obliged to comply with reads as follows:

When requested, any person camping, intending to camp, or permitted to camp
within the Yosemite Wilderness must provide proof that they are in possession of a bear-resistant food storage container allowed for use in Yosemite.


As with other regulations in the same section, this is applicable to overnight users only. A read-through of the entire Compendium suggests to me that if the NPS intended to assert authority over what day hikers carry, it would list the activity under 36 CFR §1.6 as one that requires a permit, then establish regulations and requirements for permit holders. It would also be obliged by law to provide a written determination explaining the reasoning behind the Superintendent's decision to enforce such requirements. Typically, such determinations are based on statistical analysis and empirical data from scientific studies—not the suspicions of "fed up" rangers.

Printed on both sides of the paper, the Yosemite Compendium runs to 13 sheets without attachments. Probably weighs the same as a couple of topos. Might come in handy if you encounter an overzealous enforcer of nonexistent regulations.
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maverick
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Re: Day hiking with overnight gear

Post by maverick »

The rangers in question, were probably using this as their reason:

Superintendent's Compendium, p.16:
With the exception of people on big wall climbs, all persons who wish to sleep overnight, camp, bivouac, or are in possession of equipment designed for overnight use in the wilderness/backcountry, must obtain and carry with them at all times a wilderness permit (one permit per group).
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I don't give out specific route information, my belief is that it takes away from the whole adventure spirit of a trip, if you need every inch planned out, you'll have to get that from someone else.

Have a safer backcountry experience by using the HST ReConn Form 2.0, named after Larry Conn, a HST member: http://reconn.org
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Re: Day hiking with overnight gear

Post by Tom_H »

There were times when I planned a 20 or so mile springtime day hike, knowing there was still a lot of backcountry snow. Rather than a sleeping bag, I would take an arctic parka, powder pants, and booties. That way, I could sleep in them or wear them around camp if I needed to bivvy somewhere.
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