Petition To Change Back To Pre-Covid Walk-in Permit System

[BESON]

Thanks for bringing this to our attention. I was trying to get some more information, though, on the changes to the walk-in/up system. I'd love to see continue as it was as most of my trips have been last minute. It looks like sequoia/kings is claiming that they will still have walk ups (https://www.nps.gov/seki/planyourvisit/ ... ermits.htm). Sierra National Forest seems less clear on the specifics, but still seems to allow for 'walk ups," though it's not clear how early before it can be reserved ( https://www.fs.usda.gov/detail/sierra/p ... ev7_018115 ). Perhaps those sources just aren't updated, though? I might have missed it but could anyone point me toward more information about the (proposed?) changes?

[BESON]

Looks like I may have answered some of my questions at least for Sierra NF (http://highsierratopix.com/community/vi ... =21259#top). I'm not sure I'd mind an online reservation system per se. But I'd certainly agree that 2 weeks prior being the threshold for a walk-in isn't really a walk-in and I'd like to see that changed. I wonder if the website has the ability to accommodate something like the older/current timeline where walk-in permits would be released/available the day prior to your desired entry. I've never minded the trip to the HQ in Clovis as I'm in Fresno, but if the website could hold walk-in permits until the day before desired entry and the website was functional, that could be convenient.

[Bishop_Bob]

Signed

[David_Caruso]

Signed.

The new system is being hit by bots, I think.

[michaelzim]

Just signed, but it does p... me off somewhat that one is automatically "registered" with yet another website that wants to send me stuff and ask me to XYZ. I of course unsubscribed immediatley so hope that does not delete my vote.
P.S. See yet more stuff I am about to post on the whole permits issue right after this on the other permits thread: "Wilderness Permits by rec.gov 2021"
Best ~ Michaelzim

[c9h13no3]

Hell yes!

[GriffHiker]

What would be the downside of keeping it online, but have the permits released the day before instead of two weeks out?

[michaelzim]

[As I understand things at present]:

In a way there is no online booking downside for responsible backpackers who know the rules out in the wilderness and don't need a ranger to ask them/tell them in person each time. One could get the "W" walk-in permit via email and then just go, with no need to stop in at the ranger station and pick it up. Covid safe and all that.

However, one of the obvious problems for the NFS is that the "No Show" permits are only voided and passed on to that days "W" pool if the permit holder does not confirm they are for sure using the permit by 10:00 am of that day!

There is a 14 day pre trip date window to "confirm" your permit (this is of course for a long term permit booked much earlier in the year). Once you confirm - by email or phone - the NFS changes the permit status from "issued" to "confirmed". They presume the trip is on and no refund is possible as you are now in the 14 day (at present) no refund window anyhow. If the permit is not confirmed by the holder, then as mentioned it goes to the "No Show" after 10:00 am on the permit day....so way too late to be used by many of us who can't get the permit together and get to a trailhead in the amount of time left before dark.

For more spontaneous trips the risk is that all the "W" permits will be gone soon after they are first posted 14 days prior. The newly available "No Show" permits post so late (after 10:00 am) and so close to the termination of the permit, that it hardly helps v. the old 24 hour advance system that gave enough time to scramble, put gear together and get to a trailhead the following day = the day of the permit.

If rec.gov were to change to a full 24 hour advance re the "No Show" cutoff, that would mean penalizing permit holders at 10:00 am the day before they are due to be at the trailhead if they have not "confirmed" by then. Yes, it would release more permits for the late "W" status, but may be a tricky thing to deal with when people who have permits leave stuff to the last minute too!....Mmmmmmmmm maybe a Catch 22.

*** P.S. See the new thread ref. getting permits via rec.gov!

Best ~ Michaelzim

[SSSdave]

Signed as is. Proposal is a key improvement however still allows the system to be manipulated by those inputting multiple reservations, few of which they actually expect to use. Knowing that they could be penalized if they do not at a minimum phone in to say their trip will occur instead of just ignoring any cancellation input, they may just phone in after 14 days each time and still have dozens of dates tied up for the trivial total recreation dot gov fee cost of a single night of pre-trip lodging in many tourist areas.

In order to fix that, a handshake is necessary indicating they were truly in the region near their trailhead within a few days of their hike. The way to do that would be to require physically putting a signed copy of the wilderness permit they received via email and printed out at home, into a ranger station night box near the date of their trip. Many of us have been using night boxes for years and going out of the way to do so during travel is always trivial.

[markskor]

signed..