Petition To Change Back To Pre-Covid Walk-in Permit System

[maverick]

Thank you to all of you who have signed so far.

Dave,
I understand their are numerous issues with the current system, but requesting numerous changes will lower the chances of get any reversal.This one issue impacts many backpackers, fishing persons, and climbers alike. It also should be the easiest to reverse, especially since the regular wilderness permits are already being issued, and changing that system or implementing something else would complicate things.
Also, “Walk-in” permits will not be really in demand till late Spring/early Summer, depending on the snow pack, so that gives us time to collect signatures, and for the agencies to reimplement the previous system.

[wildhiker]

What would be the downside of keeping it online, but have the permits released the day before instead of two weeks out?

There is an equity issue with any permit system that is entirely online. It freezes out those on the "wrong side" of the digital divide: poor folks who don't have computers or smart phones (yes, such people exist) and a larger number of people with unreliable internet connections or skills. The fact that recreation.gov has a telephone option doesn't really solve this inequity when permits disappear within a few minutes. You can't complete a telephone transaction that fast (assuming you can even get through to an operator).

-Phil

[Harlen]

Good point Phil. I too would really love to return to the physical permit from a ranger station. Most of us are interacting with market checkers, et al., so why not ranger station staff, After all, going backpacking is more important than food.

*Signed, and also left messages on several of the USFS W.P phones.

[michaelzim]

* With regard to having a decent quota of true “W” walk in permits, please see "By the numbers" post in other thread on this = "Wilderness Permits via recreation.gov 2021"

Here are my reasons for NOT waiting to book a permit until close to planned trip time.
To me these are all common sense in order to stack the odds in favour of a safe and rewarding trip into the wilderness:

- Is the Kaiser Pass even open if planning to go out of Edison or Florence?

- What are the (potentially dangerous) snow depths/conditions like for planned areas of the trip?

- What is the near term 3 to 5 day weather forecast? Clearly a huge planning variable for trip safety and success.

- What are the mosquito levels like and at what elevations? Another clearly deciding factor for trip success. Not truly knowable until last minute reports.

- What are the fire and smoke conditions? Yet another clear deciding factor for deciding where to go and if to go. No way this one can be figured out until near the last minute given the new reality from c. late July onwards.

# I do not have a cell phone or smartphone (and do not want one) so have to be at home to check for any last minute cancellations or No Shows after 10:00 am on day of permit. I am 12 hours drive time away from east side entries and 9 hours drive time from Edison or Florence. If I have to go through the Bay Area at midday instead of 5:00 am c/o a post 10:00 am departure from home, no doubt it will be even longer! Ughhhhhh.

When I consider these variables and then think of trying to guess what most of these may be like 6 months in advance, it is laughable. Or very sad if they are what is now demanded of me. Even 2 weeks in advance most of these questions are redundant except for late season trips – which is now when fires seem to be destroying almost every seasons best/warmest backpacking times, so that does not help either!

Best ~ Michaelzim

[Mtncaddis]

I appreciate the petition and have tried several times to sign but it simply leads to "Error 1005 Access Denied". Any tips on getting through to the signature page?

[rlown]

on 1005 error, are you trying this on VPN? Try going straight internet w/o VPN.

[jlhaughey]

I agree and signed the petition. I have secured late September permits for N. Fork Big Pine Creek for the last 2 years, only to get nixed both times. 2 years ago the Taboos fire had just started the day before my pick up date, and after driving 5 hours from the San Luis Obispo area, I learned that strong winds had kicked up overnight and closed my trailhead. Luckily I could secure a same day permit for Bishop Pass in person, and with some last minute recon and map printing had an awesome trip. I believe that a 2 week "walk up" system would lead to similar abuse that is happening with the 6 month permit system. I went online at 7:03 this morning to monitor reservations and found that ALL quotas were already filled for any and all trails that I would consider utilizing. I figure that whoever didn't get a permit for that day 6 months out will be sure to be waiting at 7:00 and 2 seconds to sandbag a permit that they still might blow off because of inclement weather.

[maverick]

Thank you to those of you have signed.

Even if these changes don’t effect you, please help your your fellow members that it does effect.

I too have contacted some of my NP and NF contacts, if you know folks in the NP or NF system, please reach out to them.

We will really have to think up some creative ways to get a larger amount of signatures this time of the year, it is really slow on all the outdoor forums.

We can do this!

[Bishop_Bob]

Could the injustice of the present state be reason for civil disobedience? Individually or en masse, we could state our intent (or actually execute) entry at one of the one of the trailheads that was booked up within minutes. Maybe it would cast light on the inequity of the situation. Just a thought to consider if the petition is not taken seriously.

[maverick]

Bob,

If we make enough noise, they will act. They will loose a lot of money, people will start going out without permits, and if and when they did bring the pre-covid system down the road, who’s to say how many of those people will ever get permits again.