High Sierra Topix

Have added Yosemite back onto the petition since they are have not decide on whether they will continue with their present system. Will now have to contact their superintendents office too.

Signed it. Passed it along to Rogue and a few others.

maverick wrote: ↑Tue Feb 23, 2021 3:08 pm Have added Yosemite back onto the petition since they are have not decide on whether they will continue with their present system. Will now have to contact their superintendents office too.

Maverick did they say something to you that has prompted this because last I read earlier in this post that they were going ahead with how they've been doing things with allowing walk up permits?

This whole issue truly is depressing from so many standpoints. Rogue and I had to completely bail on our ideas of a second Sierra Trip last summer. We ended up going to Utah to only be smoked out there as well. It was probably the single worst summer in terms of backpacking that I can remember... between forest closures from the pandemic, permit issues, and the wildfires and subsequent smoke. I was seriously hopefully that things would change for the better for summer of 2021 but this new permit system really puts a hamper on that. I truly hope they listen to our requests and understand them for the sake of everyone's ability to get into the wilderness.

Maverick did they say something to you that has prompted this because last I read earlier in this post that they were going ahead with how they've been doing things with allowing walk up permits?

They seem to be undecided on how they will proceed as Spring/Summer arrives, which is why I need to express our opinion, and get clarification on theirs.

Understood. Would be nice to know like you're saying what everyone is thinking in how they want to handle all of this. I'm realizing that the Yosemite day use permit system if still in place this summer will make things very difficult for doing a car shuttle out of the park. It just seems like there's unnecessary hurdles that are hurting us tax payers from enjoying our public lands.

Snowtrout wrote: ↑Tue Feb 23, 2021 10:32 am My wife and I signed the petition.

Question that keeps popping up is what happens to the reserved permits that are never used. Seems that the walkups get screwed on this.

An idea: 2-3 days before the permit is to be valid, the person who reserved the permit must call the FS to confirm the permit. Then the FS will release the permit in an email. If no contact is made with the FS within 24 hours of the permit date, the permit is cancelled and those spots are made available for walk ins.

I think that is how they are doing it, except you call or email them 2 to 14 days prior to your start date. Problem is there is still no penalty or way to release physical no shows on the start date itself like they used to. This was particularly important if you wanted to start from a popular trailhead. It gave you one last shot, and from the sounds of it, there were typically no shows, so the gamble would usually pay off.

maverick wrote: ↑Tue Feb 23, 2021 12:42 pm

I just looked through the comments regarding this on the Whitney Portal website and interestingly, they had more comments against the old walk-up system than for it.

The few that did make comments on that thread, only Bob was making noise against it vehemently, and that's only because the new system suits his needs, forget about the rest of us who it doesn't, real sympathetic stance.

Again, those who don't want to go back to the pre-covid system, have never made any noise about being dissatisfied with the pre-covid system in-place, there was no outrage. How would they feel if all the permits were changed to in-person, without any questions or input, shutting them out from being able to reserve on-line, which they have been relying on for decades?

NF and NF need to do a better job in communicating their ideas, get input from their customers, especially when in impacts a large amount of their tax paying customers!

Actually, I did voice dissatisfaction with one aspect of the pre-CoVid system a few parks were using, submitting applications for reserved permits by fax. That was ridiculous. I, however, do see the point of holding back some permits for walk-ups. Yosemite used to have an explanation of why they did this on their website. Bet that's been removed though.

BUMPING THIS with a copy of my post in the other Permits thread: Wilderness Permits via rec.gov 2021

This note is to encourage HST members to phone their local congress-person to make them aware of the problems.

I had a surprisingly long (45 minutes) talk yesterday with the local representative for my congressman. She was a backpacker too so was very cogent in understanding what the issues were. As I explained the possible outcomes for the new Sierra NF system (if like Inyo's) she realized that it could make backpacking as we have known it almost impossible - especially re "W" permits. She even implied that she personally knew of at least 3 backpacking friends who would do something like book a bunch of permits for "insurance" and then not bother to cancel them - or even realize the ramifications of that.

It was fruitful discussion, she took good notes and is going to act on them! Getting some push from the "bigger wigs" could help us get our voices heard perhaps, as for sure the NF Service did not seem to ask for public input on this switch-over. We on HST could have given them a bunch of decent suggestions if we had been asked!

OK, that was it. Best ~ Michaelzim

I had a surprisingly long (45 minutes) talk yesterday with the local representative for my congressman. She was a backpacker too so was very cogent in understanding what the issues were. As I explained the possible outcomes for the new Sierra NF system (if like Inyo's) she realized that it could make backpacking as we have known it almost impossible - especially re "W" permits. She even implied that she personally knew of at least 3 backpacking friends who would do something like book a bunch of permits for "insurance" and then not bother to cancel them - or even realize the ramifications of that.

It was fruitful discussion, she took good notes and is going to act on them! Getting some push from the "bigger wigs" could help us get our voices heard perhaps, as for sure the NF Service did not seem to ask for public input on this switch-over. We on HST could have given them a bunch of decent suggestions if we had been asked!

Glad to hear you finally go thru Michael.

With all due respect, I think people are overly optimistic if they think the huge, bloated, federal government is going to be responsive to this issue. I retire first week of August, and I have intended to celebrate this year for years by taking several 7-14 day backpack trips. I am not changing my plans. These are our lands, and I will get a permit if they allow me to get one. I was able to get 2 reserved permits, but now everything is full, requiring walkups. My walkups will be to remote areas of the Sierra where few people go, and whether I go with a permit depends on whether they get their act together.

The answer I got was, that because of the pandemic, the Visitors Centers will open slowly when allowed, and they will not be at the same time, which would make the re-implementation of the walk-in system complicated. The closest we will have this year to walk-in permits are the no shows that become available the same day at 10:30.