Inyo NF Closure 8/31 - 9/17

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balzaccom
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Re: Inyo NF Closure 8/31 - 9/17

Post by balzaccom »

As someone who was threatened by the Rim Fire, I'm not sold on the idea that Backcountry use doesn't pose a fire danger.

For the past few days we've been camped at a State Beach in California...since our permit was cancelled in Inyo. No dogs are allowed on the beach, nor vehicles.

Of course, once the rangers left at 5:30, people drove on the beach and walked their dogs on the beach.

I fully understand why government agencies simply close things rather than undertaking more complicated policies. Those of us who think rules don't apply to us are everywhere...
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Re: Inyo NF Closure 8/31 - 9/17

Post by alpinemike »

I think we all can agree that the situation is quite unfortunate and in many ways I'm sure you feel it's depressing. I certainly do, as my biggest outlet is getting into the Sierra, but my biggest question at this point is how long will this closure last.

Last year if I remember correctly most of the John Muir Wilderness was closed through early November, as well as many other parts of the High Sierra through all of October. So will that be the case this year? We can safely assume that the closure is not going away September 17th and I believe it will continue through the end of September but will all of October be shut down as well. I know this highly depends on the fire activity of active fires now, but more importantly any new fire starts. If I remember correctly, last year after they closed the forests there were no other major fire starts in the Sierra. Naturally, correlation does not imply causation, especially in this case. But I'm wondering if that remains to be the case that, especially if we get a late September/early October storm we may actually see a reopening before November.

I'm trying to stay optimistic given the current conditions... I personally evacuated my family and my girlfriend's mom in South Lake Tahoe. The fire was within a block of my gf's mom's house but as of now the entire neighborhood is still standing. Fires are quite close to home this year...
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Re: Inyo NF Closure 8/31 - 9/17

Post by iceboal »

alpinemike wrote: Thu Sep 02, 2021 10:05 am We can safely assume that the closure is not going away September 17th and I believe it will continue through the end of September but will all of October be shut down as well.
We have a permit on 9/18, not sure what to expect now..
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Re: Inyo NF Closure 8/31 - 9/17

Post by yosemite samizdat »

Is it correct that the Sierra Nat Parks remain totally open while every Socal wildernesses no matter how remote from Tahoe is categorically closed for any use at all? If so, that would seem indefensibly arbitrary.

It appears we spent a couple trill on stimulus but 0% of it went to fire fighting capacity. Instead, the plan is to just "close" the outdoors for weeks at a time every year during the big fires? It reminds me of July 4, 2020 when they purported to close the beaches for no particular reason. Everyone is getting way too used to employing really drastic and extraordinary public policies without satisfying the burden of proof, in my view.
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Re: Inyo NF Closure 8/31 - 9/17

Post by richlong8 »

balzaccom wrote: Thu Sep 02, 2021 9:58 am As someone who was threatened by the Rim Fire, I'm not sold on the idea that Backcountry use doesn't pose a fire danger.

For the past few days we've been camped at a State Beach in California...since our permit was cancelled in Inyo. No dogs are allowed on the beach, nor vehicles.

Of course, once the rangers left at 5:30, people drove on the beach and walked their dogs on the beach.

I fully understand why government agencies simply close things rather than undertaking more complicated policies. Those of us who think rules don't apply to us are everywhere...
If we are brutally honest, people in government think rules don't apply to them anymore. They do wrong things all the time and get away with it. If you live in a country where the elites can do what they want, but then put draconian regulations on the peasants, that is not what this country is supposed to be all about! Both parties and most politicians are guilty so I am not going on an anti Trump rant or Biden rant. Everything in this country has become politicized so I would not expect politics to not be part of this discussion.
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Re: Inyo NF Closure 8/31 - 9/17

Post by chulavista »

If you look at recent history, closing public lands in California has become the default response to any significant challenge. It started with the more recent government shutdowns, then heavy rains, fires, and coronavirus. I suspect most of the closure requests are originating at the state level but I have no evidence of that.

If you look at government action (on both sides), you will notice that it's all about making people feel better without really doing anything to solve a problem. That's why I have no issue with people ignoring closures as long as they aren't expecting someone to rescue them if something goes south.
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Re: Inyo NF Closure 8/31 - 9/17

Post by mkbgdns »

when I don't get what I want, my disappointment and anger need a target.
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Re: Inyo NF Closure 8/31 - 9/17

Post by freight_train »

yosemite samizdat wrote: Thu Sep 02, 2021 11:26 pm Is it correct that the Sierra Nat Parks remain totally open while every Socal wildernesses no matter how remote from Tahoe is categorically closed for any use at all? If so, that would seem indefensibly arbitrary.

It appears we spent a couple trill on stimulus but 0% of it went to fire fighting capacity. Instead, the plan is to just "close" the outdoors for weeks at a time every year during the big fires? It reminds me of July 4, 2020 when they purported to close the beaches for no particular reason. Everyone is getting way too used to employing really drastic and extraordinary public policies without satisfying the burden of proof, in my view.
Absolutely right, it does remind of the beach closures. This course of action is no coincidence. The powers that be saw from pandemic closures that it could be done and most people would accept it, so now blanket closures are suddenly a thing. Closing areas actually under an emergency with active fires is reasonable. Closing all forests in a very large state because something "might" happen is indefensible.
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Re: Inyo NF Closure 8/31 - 9/17

Post by balzaccom »

richlong8 wrote: Fri Sep 03, 2021 5:37 am
balzaccom wrote: Thu Sep 02, 2021 9:58 am As someone who was threatened by the Rim Fire, I'm not sold on the idea that Backcountry use doesn't pose a fire danger.

For the past few days we've been camped at a State Beach in California...since our permit was cancelled in Inyo. No dogs are allowed on the beach, nor vehicles.

Of course, once the rangers left at 5:30, people drove on the beach and walked their dogs on the beach.

I fully understand why government agencies simply close things rather than undertaking more complicated policies. Those of us who think rules don't apply to us are everywhere...
If we are brutally honest, people in government think rules don't apply to them anymore.
You may have misunderstood my point. The people who were walking their dogs or driving on the beach were not "people in government." They were normal people just like you and me. And they were clearly flouting the rules...
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Re: Inyo NF Closure 8/31 - 9/17

Post by Wandering Daisy »

There is a saying, "two wrongs do not make a right." Saying the government is also flouting rules is simply deflecting. The government is made up of people, who carry their prejudices and "culture" into government.

No set of laws or rules can work unless a large share of the people buy into them. Enforcement has its limits.

Yet, I do not think that the closure had a lot to do with public land users not following rules. I think the FS is just overwhelmed and at the end of their rope, and threw up their hands. "Safety" reasons are always a good cover. I really can't blame them.
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