CalTopo Use Cases

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kdemtchouk
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CalTopo Use Cases

Post by kdemtchouk »

I'm curious how others use CalTopo.

Personally, I tend to use solely Gaia GPS. My workflow is to draw routes/trip plan on my desktop (so that I have a larger screen to work with), then to sync the GPX tracks to my phone through my Gaia account. Gaia seems to work pretty well for drawing routes, allowing me to snap to existing trails or link waypoints for cross country travel.

The workflow I keep seeing online is that many people like to use CalTopo for trip planning and THEN they sync the GPX files to Gaia for use in the field. How is CalTopo different from Gaia in terms of trip planning?
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c9h13no3
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Re: CalTopo Use Cases

Post by c9h13no3 »

kdemtchouk wrote: Wed Nov 18, 2020 10:44 amHow is CalTopo different from Gaia in terms of trip planning?
Not sure, since I haven't used Gaia much. But the thing I like most about Caltopo is the ability to import other information onto the maps. Fire history, slope angle shading, SNOTEL data, satellite images, weather information like wind direction.

Course, I use the Peakbagger app to navigate in the field.
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kdemtchouk
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Re: CalTopo Use Cases

Post by kdemtchouk »

Ah, ok. Gaia has some of the same layers now (fires current & historical, slope shading), but seems to be lacking a few you mentioned (wind speed, Sentinel weekly satellite images, SNODAS data vs. the SNOTEL sensor readings).
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SirBC
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Re: CalTopo Use Cases

Post by SirBC »

The online Gaia experience has gotten much better in the last few years. It used to be pretty spartan, with limited layers and just overall clunkiness with the user interface. One of the things that I do really like about Gaia is that they are constantly improving their phone and web apps. While the web app is much improved it still isn't as feature rich as Caltopo.

The one feature that I really like that Gaia has that Caltopo doesn't is the ability to add photos to waypoints. This is very helpful when scouting photo locations. When I'm backpacking I will have the Gaia phone app open (but not tracking, that kills the battery. I use my GPS wristwatch for tracking) and I can save a waypoint with an option to save a photo with it. I do this all the time (for example, if I come across a spot that would make a good campsite I take a photo and label it "campsite". See below.). When I get home those waypoints with their photos are automatically synced so that when I am viewing the map on the Gaia web app I can click on a waypoint and the photo will pop up. This feature has been suggested to Caltopo in their feedback forums and they said the feature is coming in the "near future".


campsite.png


Some of the features that Caltopo has that is lacking in Gaia:

1. Printing - Caltopo is much more feature rich in this regard. One of the reasons that I have a paid Caltopo subscription is so that I can print 11x17 inch maps
2. Waypoints - Every waypoint in Gaia looks exactly the same regardless of what kind of waypoint it is. In Caltopo you have many different icons to chose from, including different colors, and you can even import your own icons. I use things like a camera for photo locations, a tent for campsites, and others for things like passes, stealth parking spots, etc.
3. Right-click context sensitive menu - there is no right-click context sensitive menu in Gaia. In Caltopo you can right-click on the map and get: position coordinates, elevation, NOAA forecast (love this one), "view from here" (love this one too), take a bearing, etc.
4. Search the map - I have a "Sierra" map in Caltopo that I have imported every HST backcountry pass (along with the description of the pass and a link that takes me to the relevant HST pass description page) and I can do a 'Ctrl + F" to do a search on the map for any pass and it will automatically jump to that pass (or any marker I have on the map, not just passes). I use this all the time when planning routes and when I'm following along to a HST trip report. Gaia doesn't put labels on any of the map markers so you can't search across them.

By the way, one Caltopo 'hack' (and the way I added the HST passes to my map) is to do a google search limited to Caltopo for GPS tracks/markers. Just go to google and enter:

site:caltopo.com search term

and it will return all publicly shared maps with routes/markers that you can import into your own map. A big thanks to whoever put the Sierra passes Caltopo map together.

5. Google Earth integration - You can sync a caltopo map to Google Earth and all routes/layers/markers from that map (including USGS maps) are visible in Google Earth. This is an amazing feature. Here is a screenshot showing Caltopo's slope angle shading overlayed onto Google Earth. This is very helpful if you want to match-up a specific location on a USGS map to google earth. You can drop a marker on the map in Caltopo and then in Google Earth toggle on and off the USGS map to see exactly where that maker is on the terrain. I find this Caltopo/Google Earth sync a killer feature for trip planning. I think this may be a paid feature.


slope.jpg


6. User Interface - This one has pluses and minuses. The Caltopo layout provides much more information on the webpage. For example, all markers and routes are listed on the left hand column and can be searched. I also prefer the Caltopo map layer implementation. However, while there is more info at your fingertips on the Caltopo page, the actual UI implementation is clunky. For example, you cannot collapse a marker category so that, for example, for the HST passes, it lists all of them in a very long scrolling manner and they take up a lot of screen real estate so that if you want to scroll to another marker it is inconvenient. You should be able to collapse a category. Also, you cannot nest categories/folders like you can in Google Earth so if you have a lot of elements on a map it really becomes cumbersome trying to navigate them. It would be so much cleaner if you could nest folders to aid in organizing your maps. I asked for this feature back in 2017 and was told it wasn't something on their radar but I see that recently they have said they will be adding this feature.

Although the Caltopo interface has more information available it is quite poorly laid out. The UI looks like something out of the early 2000's and really needs some TLC. They have reportedly hired someone to work on the UI.

7. Routes - drawing routes on Caltopo is much more feature rich. In Caltopo if you hold down shift you can then drag the mouse to draw your route freehand. This is helpful when planning routes off-trail. In Gaia you have to click your mouse button every single time you want to change direction. That's a non-starter for me.

8. Route profiles - There is a lot more information on the Caltopo route profile compared to Gaia (see below). Also, on Gaia, none of my imported routes show any elevation change on the profile. Not sure what is up with that.


profile.jpg
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SNOOOOW
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Re: CalTopo Use Cases

Post by SNOOOOW »

SirBC wrote: Thu Nov 19, 2020 10:39 am
7. Routes - drawing routes on Caltopo is much more feature rich. In Caltopo if you hold down shift you can then drag the mouse to draw your route freehand.
profile.jpg
DUDE! Why didn't I know about this "shift then drag option"? Thanks so much for this. I usually draw some medieval zig zaggy line for my cc profiles and I was SURE there was a better way. I think I need to pick your brain a bit BC. Thanks for all this info! :drinkers:
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SirBC
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Re: CalTopo Use Cases

Post by SirBC »

SNOOOOW wrote: Tue Jan 19, 2021 9:16 am
SirBC wrote: Thu Nov 19, 2020 10:39 am
7. Routes - drawing routes on Caltopo is much more feature rich. In Caltopo if you hold down shift you can then drag the mouse to draw your route freehand.
profile.jpg
DUDE! Why didn't I know about this "shift then drag option"? Thanks so much for this. I usually draw some medieval zig zaggy line for my cc profiles and I was SURE there was a better way. I think I need to pick your brain a bit BC. Thanks for all this info! :drinkers:
Caltopo is so feature rich that I I frequently stumble across something that I didn't realize existed :) There are some good videos on youtube that cover most features and their support forums are quite active with quick developer responses.
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Lumbergh21
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Re: CalTopo Use Cases

Post by Lumbergh21 »

I probably use CalTopo for trip planning because that's what I've always used as an online planning tool. I came across it while searching for a better alternative to USGS Topos. The kind folks at CalTopo had stitched together all of those topos making personalized maps an easy task, and best of all it was free! Eventually, I paid for a subscription, mainly for the larger map sets available for downloading and printing. I also have used the CalTopo app on my phone while hiking: basically for entertainment purposes while on trail and for checking my position and recording my route for future reference when off trail. I have dabbled in a few other programs (can't remember the names) since starting CalTopo, but have yet to find anything that would make me switch.
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Re: CalTopo Use Cases

Post by Shawn »

I've used CalTopo for about as long as it has been available. Prior to CalTopo, I ordered custom paper maps from a company which personalized the map to ones needs. Obviously CalTopo is feature rich, making ideal for trip planning, which for me, provides a good estimate of getting from point A to point B (especially off trail).

While I also use CalTopo for situations which do not include hiking, my main use of it beyond planning is simply plotting out my intended route, printing it on an 8x11" piece of paper and providing a link to the map for my wife so she can access the info if needed while I'm on the trip. The 8x11" map is simply a great reference to have in my pocket, while a larger map is tucked away in my pack if needed.

I have tried other apps and software in the past which served their purpose, but for me CalTopo has all I need.

As an aside kdemtchouk , the words "use cases" and "workflow" brought me right back to my old IT work whereby more time was spent on use cases and workflow documentation instead of coding. LOL.
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erutan
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Re: CalTopo Use Cases

Post by erutan »

I use Gaia in the field - USGS + slope angle + shading is great. I'm finding it useful for dayhikes / road trips using their Gaia Topo layer + slope shading then various layers turned off most of the time like cell coverage, public lands, satellite but there at the ready.

I do agree Caltopo is better for making routes before trips - I tend to do that less now that I'm not doing my XC solo anymore and carry a beacon as I can usually just look at a map and get a solid idea of how much time I'll need (and I tend to plan conservatively to allow for bad weather, a cool spot I want to wander around in, etc).

On the previous points above, Gaia does have multiple icons for waypoints (though their mobile UI for it sucks), and you can search for features and places which works a lot better than it used to.

Since Caltopo stopped licensing out their layers Gaia has made some equivalent ones - I don't like their slope shading colors as much, there's less contrast between their oranges and reds and it's harder to parse when at 15% transparency or something as a map layer.
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Re: CalTopo Use Cases

Post by OliviaParcker »

Kaltopo is better suited for pre-travel routes. (and I usually plan conservatively, a cool place where I want to wander, etc.). my whole family traveled with work colleagues from worktime
Last edited by OliviaParcker on Wed Apr 28, 2021 3:55 am, edited 2 times in total.
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