I bought used AT skis but now need boots

Discussion about winter adventure sports in the Sierra Nevada mountains including but not limited to; winter backpacking and camping, mountaineering, downhill and cross-country skiing, snowboarding, snowshoeing, etc.
User avatar
overheadx2
Topix Expert
Posts: 579
Joined: Tue Mar 22, 2011 6:08 pm
Experience: N/A
Location: huntington beach

Re: I bought used AT skis but now need boots

Post by overheadx2 »

Harlen, when you boot down a slope such as la Conte, I assume the snow is pretty deep. Do you trade out boots and snow shoe down or just post hole or glissade down? Phil
User avatar
Harlen
Topix Addict
Posts: 2075
Joined: Sat Mar 11, 2017 9:13 am
Experience: Level 4 Explorer
Location: Santa Cruz Mountains

Re: I bought used AT skis but now need boots

Post by Harlen »

overheadx2 asks:
Harlen, when you boot down a slope such as la Conte, I assume the snow is pretty deep. Do you trade out boots and snow shoe down or just post hole or glissade down? Phil
On this April trip, when it got steep (see pic) we just booted down from seeming safe point to safe point. There was a bit of avie risk that day, and that helped us decide to take the skis off. I can often find a way to ski down steeper terrain using long traverses, but not with slide potential high.

100_1437.jpg
Beautiful ski slope for somebody.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
Properly trained, a man can be dog’s best friend.
User avatar
Gogd
Topix Expert
Posts: 437
Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2022 9:50 pm
Experience: Level 4 Explorer

Re: I bought used AT skis but now need boots

Post by Gogd »

Harlen said of the Dusy route to Le Conte Canyon:
Beautiful ski slope for somebody.
Yes, the ski from Dusy into Le Conte Canyon is a great run, snow and weather conditions permitting. Mid April is usually when it is at its best. In low snow years or warm periods it is a crap shoot, due to its lower elevation.

Sorry I am late to this dance! Nevertheless this is a topic that ages well, at least until the next evolution in ski technology makes the current state of the art archaic.

My bio:
I got into skiing in the early 1970s as a way to access the mountains in winter. While I do also enjoy resort skiing, consider me in the context of this thread as using skis to get me somewhere, not someone going somewhere to use skis. My first skis were 220cm Bonna 1800s, considered a light (gentle terrain) touring ski, with wooden bases and wood (lignostone) edges, paired with slipper-like, flimsy, XC ski shoes. I found out quickly this set up had limited use in the mountainous areas I visit. My next pair were slightly shorter Bonna 2400s. These were also wood skis, but the edges were made of small segments of steel strips, fastened end to end, along the ski edges. The 2400s sufficed as mountain skis for that era. I paired the 2400s with the Asolo Sport Summit, a double boot with a stiff vibram sole, designed for heavy touring. These got me around, but turning was limited to step turns, stemming, and skidded, classic telemark turns.

In the early 1980s I upgraded my skis to 210cm Fisher Europa 99s, but kept with the Asolo touring boots. The 99s had metal edges and a hourglass side cut, allowing the skier to turn on the arc created when the ski was set on edge, affording cleaner, carved telemark turns, and execute alpine style, carved, parallel turns. The 99 was also light enough to rotate through some jump turns. I did the High Sierra Crest Traverse in 1983-84 and many a High Sierra tour on this set up. The Bonna 1600s, 2400s and Fisher 99s were all double camber skis.

In the early 1990s I was skiing 205cm Tua Mountain skis, paired to Scarpa Extreme Telemark leather boots. The Tuas were single camber, had a more radical (1st gen parabolic) side cut that facilitated tighter, carved turns, and were easier to get turning and control at speed.

My current set up is 177cm Atomic Backland 95s paired with plastic Scott Excursion boots. The Atomics have a parabolic side cut with a 95mm waist, are single camber with a slight rocker. The Atomics are so easy to control it seems they redirect at the mere thought of turning.

I have always used 3-pin bindings with rat-trap style bails (reference the Voile HD Mountaineer). I never used heel cables. This set up is light, simple, rugged, safe, and gives me all the control I need to get around. Anyone deep into ski lore will recall most of the skis mentioned herein represented the state of the art for light and fast touring in their era.

I am a skilled skier, but definitely not at the expert level. I top out if skiing deep, heavy, new snow, or steep inclines that cause my bindings to contact the slope and lift my ski edges off the hill. I used to be able to ski anything my nerves tolerated, except the un-skiable - sun cups, glare ice, highly contoured sastrugi, and Napoleon layered crust - the usual suspects. I'm not a speed freak, avoided jumps and never skied down any fall-you-die runs. I am no longer in good enough shape in my geriatric years to enjoy diamond+ level runs, moguls or blasting through crud. Skiing with a pack has always limited my down hill aspirations in the backcountry. IMO it is too much of a workout to crank turns on down a 35⁰ slope while a 50 pound pack is trying to tackle you from behind like a linebacker. Now that you have context to my opinions...

Addressing the OP's (Dave's) inquiry:
I think most AT ski set ups are overkill for your purposes. Definitely stay away from rail bindings, they are a case study in poor tradeoffs. You also should avoid going with alpine hybrid AT bindings, as they were more geared for those going places to ski, rather than those skiing to go places. The best suited AT bindings for touring the mountains in snow are tech bindings. They are light and more ergonomic than the other AT binding types. While AT bindings are de rigueur, Nordic 3-pin has endured for good reason, and is well suited for those who demur from getting into steep stuff. As for me I consider 3-pining the analog to skiing what fly rod casting is to fishing. Both demand more technical skill than other equipment, but there is nothing more satisfying than a good dry line cast than perhaps the graceful, downhill waltz of linking turns with 3-pin teles on corn or in powder. Regardless of the binding you go with, a good width ski for touring is 95MM, measured at the narrowest (waist) part of the ski. Light enough to be energy efficient, and wide enough for sufficient stability. A light tech AT set up or "heavy" 3-pin tele set up will do you just fine (both actually are about the same weight). The tech set up will be more forgiving of poor technique, but the 3-pin boots are easier on the body when it comes time to get off the skis and walk. The 3-pin system is less expensive, however, you may have trouble finding lightweight, modern skis that can take the forces imparted by a binding that is holding you to the ski by only 3 screws.

There was some conversation about the virtues of a heavy ski. I believe the weight factor overshadows whatever gains in control weight alone may offer. When a ski is easier to control it is mostly due to three factors:
  1. Its geometry (i.e. length, side cut silhouette, width, camber and rocker).
  2. Its resistance to torsional twisting.
  3. The amount of force required to transform the ski camber into a turning arc when set on edge.
It so happens some of these features are more affordable to impart in a ski using heavier materials, thus the perception: weight = control. But weight also limits agility. The mass of the ski resists efforts to pivot the un-weighted ski in a new direction (it's called swing weight), reducing the ability to execute quick turns. And more weight means more mass you have to drag or carry en route.

Regardless what skis you end up using, expect to be confounded and frustrated until you know the techniques of controlling the skis. You can get lessons at Mammoth and Badger Pass ski resorts, and further afield at Squaw Valley, Park City, Alta, and several resorts in Colorado and New Mexico. You can also learn a lot from YouTubes. My advice: view the tubes before you get lessons, but do take some lessons; they are worth the time and money. Either way, as C9 and Paul point out, unless you intend to stick to the flats or snow covered roads, you will learn much quicker how to control your skis in a few days on lift served slopes, than you will learn in a couple of seasons in the backcountry.

As for ski equipment sources:
There are the on-line and used equipment operations, but you may prefer to talk to someone and touch the goods, especially when it comes to boot fitting. Mammoth Mountaineering Supply is a good place to start. Their staff knows the sport. (Paul, unfortunately Mammoth Mountaineering does not have a Bishop location.) I understand there are some good ski shops in the Tahoe area. I know there are also some good backcountry ski shops in the Salt Lake, Park City and the Front Range of Colorado, that carry stuff not normally sold in the Cali BC ski shops, such as specialty powder skis.

Some additional considerations:
  • If you intend to go into the backcountry, among the mountains, and travel on or be surrounded by slopes with inclines steeper than 25⁰, it is highly advised you take a snow safety seminar.
  • Likewise if you ski up into the mountains, take some personal safety gear - an ax and crampons - AND LEARN HOW TO USE THEM! That friendly, soft snow at noon can freeze solid with the setting sun and become an icy, human toboggan run to your death in the late afternoon. This happens on a somewhat regular basis to people who got themselves in over their heads on your local mountains, particularly Mt. Baldy, San Jacinto, and San Gorgonio.
  • Consider how much you will ski at lift serviced resorts. The design of AT bindings make them an inferior substitute for alpine bindings on resort slopes. Orthopedic doctors report a significant increase in spiral leg bone fractures and double lower leg bone (tibia and fibula) fractures, attributing this to these types of bindings. Apparently their safety release mechanisms are not as effective protection on resort slopes as the full-on alpine bindings. So, it is advised to ski AT set ups on resort slopes only when the objective is practicing technique for the backcountry activities.
  • On the other hand 3-pin bindings don't release (actually they can and do), however, the nature of the system presents the lowest risk for leg injuries among all the ski binding systems out there.
Ed
I like soloing with friends.
Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 20 guests