When the Levee Breaks

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Lumbergh21
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Re: When the Levee Breaks

Post by Lumbergh21 »

Thankfully, it looks like the evacuations were started in time for people to get to safety. Unfortunately, we are probably looking at billions in property damage. There are going to be a lot of people needing help soon and throughout the year.
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Jimr
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Re: When the Levee Breaks

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thank you WD, I understand what you are saying. I'll put my discussion on hold because there seems to be a more pressing issue.
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Tom_H
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Re: When the Levee Breaks

Post by Tom_H »

Yea, events of the moment seem to have forced this into two discussions. IDK if Eric can split this into two separate threads or not???

Here is a video of rocks being loaded into bags for helicopter drop into the erosion area tomorrow. I used to run whitewater and moving water packs a LOT of power. Hydrodynamic force on this scale is tremendous. I would think the engineers planning this are qualified, but ISTM that rocks of this size sitting on top of mud are just going to get washed downhill like everything else with this size flow. Any of you river runners and water experts have opinions?

https://www.facebook.com/KCRAMiller/vid ... 857390119/
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Lumbergh21
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Re: When the Levee Breaks

Post by Lumbergh21 »

I find it hard to believe that rocks of that small size will be of any use. At least the water level appears to be below the top of the emergency spillway for now. Without any water flow, maybe they can do something with those rocks in prep for when it possibly starts overflowing again at the end of the week.
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maverick
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Re: When the Levee Breaks

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http://www.mercurynews.com/2017/02/12/o ... years-ago/
Three environmental groups — the Friends of the River, the Sierra Club and the South Yuba Citizens League — filed a motion with the federal government on Oct. 17, 2005, as part of Oroville Dam’s relicensing process, urging federal officials to require that the dam’s emergency spillway be armored with concrete, rather than remain as an earthen hillside.

The groups filed the motion with FERC, the Federal Energy Regulatory Commission. They said that the dam, built and owned by the state of California, and finished in 1968, did not meet modern safety standards because in the event of extreme rain and flooding, fast-rising water would overwhelm the main concrete spillway, then flow down the emergency spillway, and that could cause heavy erosion that would create flooding for communities downstream, but also could cause a failure, known as “loss of crest control.”

“A loss of crest control could not only cause additional damage to project lands and facilities but also cause damages and threaten lives in the protected floodplain downstream,” the groups wrote.

FERC rejected that request, however, after the state Department of Water Resources, and the water agencies that would likely have had to pay the bill for the upgrades, said they were unnecessary. Those agencies included the Metropolitan Water District of Southern California, which provides water to 19 million people in Los Angeles, San Diego and other areas, along with the State Water Contractors, an association of 27 agencies that buy water from the state of California through the State Water Project. The association includes the Metropolitan Water District, Kern County Water Agency, the Santa Clara Valley Water District and the Alameda County Water District.
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Vaca Russ
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Re: When the Levee Breaks

Post by Vaca Russ »

Maverick,

WOW! Great find!!

:eek: :eek:

I'm shocked and surprise the government appears to be so negligent. They are usually the pillars of great planning and responsible management.

:D :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :nod: :nod: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

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Jimr
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Re: When the Levee Breaks

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I queried the FERC site, but could not find the original docket number or motion. It does claim that they are having a problem with their query. I'll try again tonight. I'd like to see the source document. It appears to me that Mr. Rogers is attempting to inflame and blame So. Cal. Why else would he say "would likely have to pay the bill", then single out Metro from the other 26 agencies, then ensure everyone knows that Metro supplies water to the South? It seems to me he is implying that So. Cal. is to blame and did so because we did not want to pay the bill.

It also seems to me that no matter who initially pays for projects like this, it is ultimately every household in the state that will fund it whether it be via direct taxation or increased water bill.

Of course, perhaps I have just opened a can of worms that Mr. Rogers intended to have opened. :dontknow
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maverick
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Re: When the Levee Breaks

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Mercury News:
Lester Snow, who was the state Department of Water Resources director from 2004 to 2010, said Sunday night that he does not recall the specifics of the debate during the relicensing process 11 years ago.

“The dam and the outlet structures have always done well in tests and inspections,” Snow said. “I don’t recall the FERC process.”

Stork said at the time he talked to Snow about the environmental group’s concerns, and he recalls that Snow said the issue was being handled mostly by one of his lieutenants.

A filing on May 26, 2006, by Thomas Berliner, an attorney for the State Water Contractors, and Douglas Adamson, an attorney for the Metropolitan Water District of Southern California, discounted the risk. It urged FERC to reject the request to require that the emergency spillway be armored, a job that would have cost tens, if not hundreds, of millions of dollars.
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Jimr
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Re: When the Levee Breaks

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This is from the same article. I'm already wondering if he is representing the facts in a biases or unbiased way. I guess I have a few source documents to search for. Maybe over a glass of wine this evening.
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rlown
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Re: When the Levee Breaks

Post by rlown »

On a cheerier note, there is 17.5 feet of snow at the Tioga entry station according to CDEC. Not really worried about that, but always nice to know. http://cdec.water.ca.gov/cgi-progs/queryF?TES

Helps me plan but plowing might take some time this Spring.

On a personal note, I noticed that I lost about 8 yds of soil in my sloped pasture, and there's a leech field pipe staring at me. That's not good but I can't do anything about it now. No helicopter to drop rock around it.
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