No more backpacking! What next?

[BSquared]

Nice to hear from all of you (us!) old timers!

[Snowtrout]

Thank you all for sharing. I turned 50 last summer and realize I probably have around 15-20 years (hopefully) before I will be facing this predicament. Hope to hike and see as much as possible until then.

For me though, worse than not hiking would be not fishing. Not being able to use my boat and having to sell it and my fishing gear might instantly cause the end of me. Plus, my wife might find out how much I really spent on "our" fishing gear.

[Mike M.]

Like Mike above, there comes a time….

Mark, I especially enjoyed your colorful and affectionate post.

Glad to see you're back in good health and ready to assume your post at the Tuolumne Meadows store this summer.

Mike M.

[BSquared]

Yes, good to see your post Mark! Hopefully, we'll finally get out there again this next summer and come and pay you a visit at the store!

Right now, I am recuperating from rotator-cuff surgery, "courtesy" of Vermont's Long Trail. Should be fine by the summer though!

[oldranger]

Mike started doing spot packing years ago. Could be a good solution as we age. Get into a basin, hang out for a week and get packed out.

haven't gotten to the point where I have been packed out yet! just a first day boost. Doubles the distance I can go the first day with the heaviest pack of the trip. Also provides real food for the first night if we don't continue hiking immediately after being dropped off.

[BSquared]

Can anyone provide a real world example of "spotting"? Where did you go, how much did it cost, how far in advance did you need to make the arrangements, any recommendations for specific packers, and so on? A quick glance at the various packers' websites makes me worry that anywhere slightly remote, meaning a normal two-day hike in, could be really, really expensive!

[balzaccom]

Define really expensive. More expensive that flying to Hawaii? More expensive than Disneyland? I think the last time I checked it would about a grand to hire someone to drop my gear a good long day's hike from the trailhead. Remember that mules go twice as fast as hikers...and that included packs for two people.

So $1000 for a week long basecamp trip. That was a few years ago. But $1000 a week is only expensive if you aren't doing any other kind of vacation

[markskor]

Not knowing all the nuances of the total costs for a "spot pack" today...what I can do is relate my own past experiences. FYI, a spot pack is when they pack you and your pack in, and drop you off at a pre-designated spot, and leave...you walk out.
My anal backpacking buddy Mike (aka the OldRanger) has always taken care of the reservations and permits...FYI permits vary - some gotten beforehand as usual/ some directly from the outfitter. Ask Mike. I just show up with a big smile, a full wallet, 2-weeks of provisions packed, ready to fish, and go with the flow. BTW, Mike always added some last-minute weight to my pack...always worth it though... whatever.

Observations on spot packing... as have had the privilege of sharing ~5 spot packs with Mike:
We always showed up at the outfitter at the crack of dawn...packs loaded and ready.
The drover or wrangler (or whatever the politically correct term is now) took our 60 liter packs, weighed them, (each backpack fishing-ready, both about equal weight, somewhere shy of 50 pounds), then strapped both of them expertly on one mule. Here Mike usually told them what they were doing wrong...always had some comment on how he used to do it...He knows. I just sat back, smoked a fatty, and watched it all go down.
Eventually, we mounted up on our assigned beasts... (I always got the biggest, most ornary mule available due to my weight, 225 lbs, ...thanks Mike)...and headed out for an all-day ride. My mule, usually slow, chose to be last...but first he also decided to give me the ol' stink eye right after my mounting up... he was the one in charge that day.
Riding atop a mule (for 10 - 14 miles uphill)...sigh...mine always had a mind of its own...as stated, was just along for a ride. Was once told by someone..."The trick is to pretend you were balancing a cup atop your head."
After 10 hours or so (and gaining a few/three thousand plus feet elevation), your ass screams out...now at the "spot" you cannot walk afterwards for a good half hour...long after the horses/mules headed back home to their stables below.

What you are left with then is Mike, two weeks of provisions in your over-stuffed backpacks (including a few liters of 161 proof Jamacian rum, couple pounds af Asiago, bars of good chocolate, etc)...amazing fishing for Goldens ahead, off-trail, at altitude, and usually starting off downhill...nice!

As mentioned above, not exactly sure of the total costs as Mike (having past ranger connections) always made all the reservations, but my share was $400 - $500 per each trip (which always included a healthy tip), and always well worth it.
One good example specifically was the 15-day backpack fishing trip up to the top of Pine Creek - doing the Bears for Goldens. Our total "party" for that one "Spot Pack" day included one wrangler and his horse, Mike's horse, my mule, and a mule carrying both our packs.
mark

[BSquared]

Thanks very much you guys! Exactly the kind of information I was looking for. Mark, how far up Pine Creek did you actually go? I know that mules and horses go faster than people, but ... Oh, wait: you said 10 to 14 miles uphill OK I'll look at Caltopo & try to figure it out, but off the top of my head it sounds like you could easily get to Moon or Elba. Right?

What had me worried was the website of high Sierra pack trips:, which said that a place like the upper Kern, or Bench Lake, might be as much as $7500 for each of two people! But, of course, those really are quite a bit farther in than lots of really great places to go base camping.

[Wandering Daisy]

Other options: 1) walk in with a day-pack and just have the outfitter pack in the remaining supplies, 2) backpack as usual for say, 5 days, then have the outfitter resupply you for another 5 days.

You pay for:
1) the wrangler - a set daily price
2) each pack horse, about 100-120 pounds per horse. Each outfitter has different limits. This usually is not a concern for backpackers. Generally you can get two backpacker's gear on one horse.
3) number of days the wrangler and his horses are utilized- one day price is based on about 10-12 miles one-way, or a 20-mile round trip. This also varies per each outfitter or locations- how much elevation gain, etc.
4) additional cost for each riding horse- some outfitters have different prices for riding horses vs pack horses.
5) gratuity (tip) - same as eating out, some added automatically to the bill, some are voluntary

Bottom line is that the larger the group, the less cost per person, because there are fairly high "fixed costs", regardless of number of people.

markskor- did you have to have to obtain your own personal permit or were you covered under the outfitters permit? Outfitters have commercial permits so not sure if their clients are included in the regular trail quotas.

Just a warning, having used outfitters before, if you are not used to riding a horse, you will be really sore the next day. Outfitters have several size horses, be proactive and request a horse that fits you. I hate riding so much that I'd rather walk, leaving a few hours early and meet the packer at a specified location.