Hunting?

Grab your bear can or camp chair, kick your feet up and chew the fat about anything Sierra Nevada related that doesn't quite fit in any of the other forums. Within reason, (and the HST rules and guidelines) this is also an anything goes forum. Tell stories, discuss wilderness issues, music, or whatever else the High Sierra stirs up in your mind.
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rlown
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Re: Hunting?

Post by rlown » Wed Apr 07, 2021 5:48 pm

Given red abalone is closed through 2026, kind of a moot point. Go after Urchin.








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Re: Hunting?

Post by Wandering Daisy » Thu Apr 08, 2021 9:45 am

Sorry to deflect the humorous side-show. Did anyone else read the article this morning in the Sacramento Bee about the archery deer hunters (trophy hunters, not subsistence hunters) who got caught baiting deer and bragging about it on the internet? The light sentence they got also gives the impression that the game wardens were simply over zealous and the hunting regulations too picky.

Whether you agree with the light sentences or not, unfortunately this behavior puts a bad name on all hunters. Similar to those few in the backpacking community who ignore the "rules" and trash the wilderness. All the more ammunition for those who want to ban hunting and lock up the wilderness.

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Re: Hunting?

Post by rlown » Thu Apr 08, 2021 9:51 am

The sentences handed out for hunting/fishing violations are way too light.

There was a great show on wildlife wardens: https://cdfgnews.wordpress.com/2012/03/ ... ns-sunday/

It was done in 2012, but it was a great show.
Department of Fish and Game (DFG) wardens worked with National Geographic video crews throughout the year to produce one of the network’s highest rated shows ever. Each week, camera crews accompany California game wardens on patrol working everything from poaching investigations involving deer, wild pigs and abalone to illegal drug use/possession, stolen vehicles and illegal marijuana cultivation.

The vast majority of California hunters and anglers are engaged in lawful, ethical outdoor recreation. Legitimate hunters and anglers have contributed to the majority of the fish and wildlife conservation efforts in California for more than 100 years. Although the show focuses on the very small percentage that break the law, the series also recognizes hunters and anglers who practice responsible conservation of the fish and wildlife populations, and their habitats.

The producers of the show, Original Productions, also produce the hit series “Deadliest Catch,” “Ice Road Truckers” and “Axemen,” among others. Their intensive style of production puts the viewer in the middle of the action as wardens conduct investigations of every sort. They even attached cameras to the collars of warden K9s to get a viewpoint unlike any other.

For more information, see the National Geographic Channel’s “Wild Justice” website, http://www.natgeotv.com/wildjustice.
I think the natgeo link is dead unfortunately.

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Re: Hunting?

Post by Harlen » Thu Apr 08, 2021 10:32 am

I appreciate the road-kill humor above, but with regard to "hunting," is it fair to say that in many places now, cars are effectively the new wolves?
Cars sure do the deer culling around the Santa Cruz Mountains. It's a shame when animals are needlessly killed on the roads. Many animal carcasses (except ours) are utilized by scavenger organisims from Bears and Coyotes, right down to the soil bacteria. I defend my road-kill harvesting in part by the fact that other scavenger species will not be subsequently killed by cars, and I have seen enough evidence of that happening. In Australia it was sad to see so many of their great Wedge-tailed Eagles lying dead beside the Wallaby, or Roo they had been feeding on. I always return all of the body parts we don't use to a nice quiet site for the scavengers to take. I still probably get more than my fair share.

WD and erutan have made reference to the need for human hunters to cull excess animals now that many natural predator species are absent. I will stick my neck out here by stating that I believe that this work is better done in our Parks by highly trained Park staff, or contract hunters and trappers. Cal. State Parks mostly uses such contract pros, and in my experience dealing with them, I have been very impressed by their professionalism.

Though there are many conscientious and knowledgeble, rlown-like hunters in the public sphere, how would it be possible to have only them do the culling work? The target species is not always obvious-- say telling a fast-moving red fox from the native gray, who also can have reddish tinges to their fur. I would be afraid to just cut loose any hunter who signed up out into the Parklands. One thing that concerns me a lot is the potential for some hunters to use the right to enter the Parks with guns to begin performing the vile act of market-hunting animals for body parts. One of the most egregious forms of this is the killing of Bears for their gall-bladders for the lucrative Eastern medicine trade.

I would hope that any hunting license would necessarily come with required training courses, or some means of determining the expertise of each hunter.
Last edited by Harlen on Sun Apr 11, 2021 9:51 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Hunting?

Post by rlown » Thu Apr 08, 2021 10:42 am

Hunter safety course is mandatory to obtain a hunting license. I've taken it 3 times just for fun. Also, if you are buying a weapon, you are required to show that you have taken a firearm safety course. Hunter safety is much better than the questionnaire version which shows no actual training. My first course at 14 came with target/range safety practice.

On a bear trip in the Trinity area, my friend had no clue what he as doing. As we skinned and quartered the bear, I actually had to explain the method.
I did the major cut and showed him what each organ was. Pointed out the gall bladder and said to him it is worth big money on the black market and then tossed it into the bushes. :) I skinned on one side and made him skin on the other. All this on a 35 degree slope. sigh. Bear was tied into a tree so it wouldn't fall down 100 yds. A learning experience for him and a teaching experience for me. Paws, claws and head on the hide intact. Made a nice lined rug. Happy that it snowed that night so the hide could cool. 75 lb hide. I hiked it out. We went for the meat the next day. Packer didn't show.

I agree that only park staff with training should do the "culling."

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Re: Hunting?

Post by Harlen » Thu Apr 08, 2021 11:41 am

When I wrote:
I would hope that any hunting license would necessarily come with required training courses, or some means of determining the expertise of each hunter.
I should have said: "... any new form of State or National Park hunting license to cull excessive animal populations would necessarily come with required training courses,..."

Russ, do the standard training courses include animal species, and sex identification? I'm sure there must be stuff on does vs bucks, and it must be hell to learn to tell all of the duck species apart! But, wouldn't it be a different course to train for the removal of feral animals, pest species, and culling?
I guess you wouldn't have much trouble recognizing a wild boar, feral pigs, or turkeys, but feral cats from bobcats, and the red-gray fox example above are examples of difficulties. The question was more about culling deer and elk, but that might also present new challenges. For instance, what might the rules be for a doe hunt to lessen population pressure? The hunters, I hope, would need to shoot only does without fawns, and that requirement would add a new element. I recall hearing that New Zealand's deer culling effort became something of a madhouse. They paid per deer killed, and the big money led to crazed competion between hunters. I heard that aireal hunter's airplanes were even sabotaged, and deer were herded into areas and just blasted away at, which led to the incidental killing of many non-target species-- rare, flightless birds, etcetera. That is a different scenario, but it is a weird and cautionary tale regarding private hunting in Parks.

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Re: Hunting?

Post by rlown » Thu Apr 08, 2021 12:05 pm

Doe hunts are coordinated by CDFW. It is the hunters responsibility to determine what is take. Those are regional and planned accordingly as with all other hunts. That is why I can't shoot the 3 mallards and 12 canada geese on the back 5 acres. Pretty birds and I know they have nests now so I keep Simba away from where I think the nests are. Simba like to chase them though, and It is good exercise for him.
Will he get them, NO.

I could talk about feral cats but I won't. Lets just say I don't like cats at all. A bobcat is obvious, and pointless to shoot.

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