What would you do if this Puma was on your trail?

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Harlen
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What would you do if this Puma was on your trail?

Post by Harlen »

Many of you must remember the video (linked below) of an intense Mountain Lion encounter that went viral a few years ago. I revisited it, as I was enjoying more wildlife videos, and this time I read through pages of viewer responses. One point that kept coming up was why didn't the guy pick up a rock. Many were convinced that bending down to do it would have been a death sentence- that the mamma cat would have leapt on him, and end of story. I finally was inspired to write and defend the other position, held by another person with the pen name of "Marius Closka," who advocated a rock for defense. My reasoning is written below, placed here too, because we HST folk have the very real possibility of experiencing this sort of event, and some of us may have already, so please chime in. Satchel Buddah did have a truly remarkable encounter with a big Puma hunting a Deer right in front of him, any others?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ktRhBcHza4

A lot of interesting points come up regarding the cat's behavior:

- Was is purely defensive, or had it, or could it have turned predatory?
- Should the man have stood still, backed up faster, or done other things differently?
- What are our chances in a fight with a Mountain Lion? What weapons we might choose to carry?
- Was this a guy with giant cojones to continue filming, or was he ignorant of the danger?
- What happens at the very end, when the cat turns and runs back down the trail? Did he in fact, bend down to grab something?

I wrote:
I have to side with Marius Closka. In my opinion, there is good sense in picking up a rock as a future hand weapon against the cat, and as a throwing weapon, or deterrent. I do believe this is a good debate to have, and, of course, one can not be absolutely certain of the outcome in every situation. Many people above make a valid point that you do not want to make yourself appear smaller, and less threatening. Also, lowering yourself down to pick up a rock or stick does give the cat better access to your head and neck. However, in the balance, I would have done it, and here's why. Through natural selection, predators are adapted to avoid injury; they need to be able to hunt and protect themselves, and their young in this case, long onto the future. This is why the puma usually hunts stealthily from ambush. So if the "prey" can manage to inflict an injury, or even show signs that it is capable of doing so, there is a good chance that the predator will move off to seek another target. This is why it's even a good idea to jam your thumb in the eye of the 2000 lb. Great white shark that has you in its Jaws. You're not expecting to outfight the shark, just to engage it's inborn fear of injury.
I also agree, after watching this great video over and over, that the mamma cat is just trying to drive the man away, not hoping to make a meal of him. I myself have had the shocking experience of being "mock-charged" by a Grizzly when living in Alaska, the bear's behavior looked remarkably similar to this cat, when she performed those more intense charges.

So how would you do it? I reckon you would try to be as quick as you can, picking up as many rocks as you could (the camera would have been long gone had this been me), and while picking up the baseball-sized rocks, I would have made a point of keeping my posture facing the cat, and trying not to break eye-contact. Initially, I would not want to seriously injure the cat, so I would throw the first rocks hard, but in front of her, or, if she presented her side, into that target. I would want to keep the best rock weapon in hand, in case the cat did pounce on me-- a lot better than nothing right?
Finally, I wonder what did happen at the end, when the cat ran off-- it seems as though the guy did do something, but it's hard to tell what. Thanks for the interesting debate.
Last edited by Harlen on Tue Dec 07, 2021 8:56 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: What would you do if this Puma was on your trail?

Post by maverick »

NPS:
Your Safety in Mountain Lion Habitat


Generally, mountain lions are calm, quiet and elusive. They are most commonly found in areas with plentiful prey and adequate cover. Such conditions exist within Point Reyes National Seashore. Mountain lions are an important part of the park ecosystem, helping to keep deer and other prey populations in check. Although lion attacks are rare, they are possible, as is injury from any wild animal. Even so, the potential for being killed or injured by a mountain lion is quite low compared to many other natural hazards. There is a far greater risk, for example, of being killed in an automobile accident with a deer than of being attacked by a mountain lion.

We offer the following recommendations to increase your safety:

Do not hike alone. Hike in groups, with adults supervising children.

Keep children close to you. Keep children within your sight at all times.



If you see a mountain lion:

Stay calm. Hold your ground or back away slowly. Face the lion and stand upright.

Do not approach a lion. Never approach a mountain lion, especially one that is feeding or with kittens. Most mountain lions will try to avoid a confrontation. Give them a way to escape.

Do not run from a lion. Running may stimulate a mountain lion's instinct to chase. Instead, stand and face the animal. Make eye contact. If you have small children with you, pick them up, if possible, so they don't panic and run. Although it may be awkward, pick them up without bending over or turning away from the mountain lion.

Do not crouch down or bend over. Biologists surmise mountain lions don't recognize standing humans as prey. On the other hand, a person squatting or bending over looks a lot like a four-legged prey animal. If you're in mountain lion habitat, avoid squatting, crouching, or bending over, even when picking up children.


If the mountain lion moves in your direction or acts aggressively:

Do all you can to appear intimidating.

- Attempt to appear larger by raising your arms and opening your jacket if you are wearing one. Wave your arms slowly and speak firmly in a loud voice.

- If looking bigger doesn't scare the mountain lion off, without crouching or turning your back, start throwing stones, branches, or whatever you can reach in its direction (e.g., toward it, but not directly at it). Aim for the ground in front of it; don't throw things directly at it just yet. Think of these as warning shots. You aren't wanting to hit and unnecessarily injure the mountain lion, but you do want to show it that you can defend yourself and potentially injure it. And that will hopefully deter it from approaching any closer.

With that said, your safety is of the utmost importance and the National Park Service won't necessarily prosecute you for harassment of wildlife if something you throw at an aggressive mountain lion does make contact. Again, during the initial stages of a mountain lion encounter, the idea is to convince the mountain lion that you are not prey and that you may be a danger to it.

One might ask: "How do I reach stones or branches without bending down?" If you are in a trailcut, you could get rocks to throw from the side of the trailcut. If you are in a wooded area, you might be able to find a loose branch within reach, or feel free to break branches off of trees or shrubs, if necessary. If you are with others, the shorter/smaller individuals could bend down close behind taller/bigger individuals (make it look as much as possible like you are all one big animal) and provide the taller/bigger individuals with rocks or sticks to throw. However, stones and branches may not always be readily within reach. But you will probably be carrying a backpack or fanny pack containing hard items that can be thrown, like water bottles, and you could retrieve those while remaining upright to use as projectiles. But don't throw everything you have, though. You might want to hold on to one metallic or hard plastic water bottle in reserve to use as a club or as weight in your backpack or fanny pack, which can be swung at the cat if it gets close enough. So, most hikers will have some options, even if they can't bend down to pick up rocks or sticks.


If the mountain lion continues to move in your direction:


Start throwing things AT it. Again, your safety is more important than the mountain lion's, so you should feel free to continue to escalate the level of hostility to intimidate and scare off the mountain lion. Initially during this stage, aim for its body as accurately as you can, but avoid aiming at its head. Aiming at its head could result in the cat being blinded in one eye, which could make it more dangerous to other hikers who later visit the park. Mountain lions are very dependent upon their sight—particularly depth perception—in order to successfully hunt their natural prey. Many of the relatively few attacks by mountain lions on humans in the USA are by individuals who are injured, stressed, and/or hungry. A hungry, stressed mountain lion with only one good eye, upon observing an abundance of slow, frequently inattentive* bipeds on park trails may attack one of us humans, hoping for an easy meal. (* Put your earbuds and smart phone away and enjoy the natural quiet while you hike.)


If the mountain lion attacks you:

Fight back! A hiker in Southern California used a rock to fend off a mountain lion that was attacking his son. Others have fought back successfully with sticks, caps, jackets, garden tools, and their bare hands. Since a mountain lion usually tries to bite the head or neck, try to remain standing and face the attacking animal. Also, if you have a backpack, try to position it to serve as body armor or a shield.


IMMEDIATELY REPORT ALL SIGHTINGS, ENCOUNTERS, OR ATTACKS

If you are involved in a face-to-face encounter with, or an attack by, a mountain lion, contact a ranger at one of the park's visitor centers as soon as possible or call 415-464-5170. The threat to public safety will be assessed and appropriate action will be taken.

I have been hiking the Bay Area parks for decades and fortunately have had only had two encounters with mountain lions, one in Edgewood County Park and one in Purisima Creek Preserve.
The first one in Edgewood was several hundred yards away and quickly took off into the woods.
The second one in Purisima happened as I was descending from Skyline using the Whittemore Gulch Trail; the cat stepped out onto the trail about 50 feet ahead of me. It stopped, looked at me; I picked up a rock, yelled, and raised my hiking poles; it took off into the forest.

In the Sierra, I have only heard them and seen paw prints. Saw several paw prints while on a cross-country pass between Observation Lakes Basin and Dumbbell Lakes Basin.


The person in the video made two errors, in my opinion. He should have stopped taping as soon as it was evident that the cat was continuing towards him. Walking backward while taping could have led to him tripping; this could have escalated into an attack by the cat. There were plenty of opportunities for him to grab a rock from the sides without bending down and then to throw it towards the cat.
Fortunately, this encounter turned out well for this hiker.
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I don't give out specific route information, my belief is that it takes away from the whole adventure spirit of a trip, if you need every inch planned out, you'll have to get that from someone else.

Have a safer backcountry experience by using the HST ReConn Form 2.0, named after Larry Conn, a HST member: http://reconn.org
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Re: What would you do if this Puma was on your trail?

Post by BillyBobBurro »

This video starts off with the person walking towards a very visible cougar kitten which really does seem like a smart move.

I was camping in a very remote off trail area in the southern part of the Sierras, it was night time and while panning around with my head lamp on I noticed two eyes watching me. The eyes were up on a hillside about 100' away. I could not make out any physical details of the animal's body. These eyes were spaced far enough apart that they did not belong to a small animal. I tossed a rock in it's direction which fell short. This animal fairly quickly came down the hillside to investigate this rock or to get a better look at me. It did not move like a bear or deer. It was now about 50-60' away and starring intently at me. It did this very distinct up/down left/right head movement while looking right at me. After a few minutes of this stare down it finally turned around a disappeared up the hill. The next morning I spotted a very obvious shallow cave up where I originally spotted the eyes.

The up/down and left/right head movement seemed very cat like. I've seen some very big cat foot prints in this area prior to this encounter.
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Re: What would you do if this Puma was on your trail?

Post by Jimr »

@maverick
The question was "How would you do it".

What first came to mind to me (and I'm sticking to it) is a quote from Mike Tyson:
"Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the face"
If you don't know where you're going, then any path will get you there.
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Re: What would you do if this Puma was on your trail?

Post by phoenix2000 »

That is an amazing video. Before reading Maverick's post I would have said bend down and pick up a rock but only if the mountain lion was far enough away. In the video the mountain lion was chasing the guy too closely within seconds so no time to do anything but back off. It did look like in sections of the trail the guy could have grabbed a rock from the side of the trail without bending over or crouching.

The video beings with the cub in plain sight standing horizontally in the road but what is the animal that it is staring down? The one crouched in the grass in the middle of the road. The mystery animal takes off in the same direction as the guy when the mother mountain lion appears and then around 12 seconds into the video you can see it run off the side of the trail. It sorta looks like it may be a fox.
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Re: What would you do if this Puma was on your trail?

Post by Harlen »

BTW, I located Satchel Buddah's great Mountain Lion experience-- here is the link to his post:

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=20090&p=151122&hili ... ke#p151121

phoenix2000 writes:
The video beings with the cub in plain sight standing horizontally in the road but what is the animal that it is staring down? The one crouched in the grass in the middle of the road. The mystery animal takes off in the same direction as the guy when the mother mountain lion appears and then around 12 seconds into the video you can see it run off the side of the trail.
I found out from later interviews with the guy in the video that there were at least 4 cubs with the mamma lion. The mystery animal was another of the cubs. He saw them, and assumed they were bobcats, which he had seen before on this same trail, that is why he initially moved toward them, and pulled out his phone/camera.
Last edited by Harlen on Tue Dec 07, 2021 9:05 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: What would you do if this Puma was on your trail?

Post by Wandering Daisy »

So, mountain lion young are called "cubs"?? Why not "kittens"?
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Re: What would you do if this Puma was on your trail?

Post by Harlen »

Daisy asks:
So, mountain lion young are called "cubs"?? Why not "kittens"?
"Cubs" and "Kittens" are both used-- take your pick. "Cubs" make them sound wilder, so I tend to use it.
Last edited by Harlen on Fri Dec 03, 2021 3:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: What would you do if this Puma was on your trail?

Post by SSSdave »

In the beginning the cat was not too aggressive just protecting her kittens. Obviously the cat at some earlier point upon sizing up the lightly dressed nearly naked monkey decided it would make a convenient useful meal. Later after aggressive hormones pumped in, things became worse and the cat became more menacing. Probably had seen humans before and had wondered about attacking some for food. In the beginning the guy's voice is rather weak, an indication of being frightened. He may also just not have a naturally loud voice as many others. When the cat reared up in an attacking mode with front legs and claws expanded, it looked truly terrifying.

My own voice can be much louder. I've hiked a lot locally in mountain lion country and am rarely backpacking but rather day hiking with a pack with over 15 pounds of camera gear. Also fully clothed, not in shorts and t-shirt. It is useful to have a sizeable knife ready at hand which I do carry. Am most often carrying a big neck high tripod that could be used defensively. And yeah like Harlen would be thinking of picking up rocks if possible when the cat wasn't so close as even in my eighth decade can throw rocks like a kid.

A decade plus ago two of us carrying large tripods encountered 2 large mountain lions below, maybe just 10 feet, from where we were standing. That was about a quarter mile west of the McGee Creek trailhead while walking along the edge of the creek gully that is full of brush and cottonwood. After staring at us a couple moments, they suddenly both made enormous bounds towards the creek. Made some local news. That noted, as someone regularly thrashing around in such Eastern Sierra sagebrush areas where few to no other humans ever explore, I've seen plenty of remains of killed deer. My expectations is many cats within a mile or two of roads have already seen plenty of humans and learned to avoid them, especially cowboys with horse and dogs. More scary in terms of both cats and black bears is to be roaming in truly remote places where they have possibly never yet encountered humans that given lack of claws/teeth weapons...
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