Some permit questions.

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hybrid90
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Some permit questions.

Post by hybrid90 » Fri Jun 20, 2014 2:57 pm

Wife and I are planning for a trip to Ediza Lake Friday - Sunday but the permits are only available starting Saturday on the website.

1) Technically, would it be ok if I get the permit for Saturday but start hiking in on Friday? Will I be fine for that? Has anyone done this before? Don't worry, I won't tell :D
2) On the website, the permit says available for Saturday, how long can I stay when I get the permit?

Thanks








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maverick
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Re: Some permit questions.

Post by maverick » Fri Jun 20, 2014 3:22 pm

Hi Hybrid90,

Welcome to HST!
Hybrid90 wrote:
1) Technically, would it be ok if I get the permit for Saturday but start hiking in on
Friday? Will I be fine for that? Has anyone done this before? Don't worry, I won't tell :D
2) On the website, the permit says available for Saturday, how long can I stay when I
get the permit?
Official it would not be okay, If you run into a ranger, they will make you hike back out.
Do not understand you second question about how long can you stay? On the permit
you have to indicate your entry and exit dates.
Professional Sierra Landscape Photographer

I don't give out specific route information, my belief is that it takes away from the whole adventure spirit of a trip, if you need every inch planned out, you'll have to get that from someone else.

Have a safer backcountry experience by using the HST ReConn Form 2.0, named after Larry Conn, a HST member: http://reconn.org

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Re: Some permit questions.

Post by SSSdave » Fri Jun 20, 2014 4:12 pm

You seem to be looking for indications from other enthusiasts that such behavior is common to support your inclination to bend the rules but you won't find any here. Actually most of us follow quota policies and if that does not allow entry, we don't go.

That is not to say a few individuals and groups regularly go into the backcountry overnight rarely getting permits as a few certainly do because they expect to get away with it and if they are caught, only are pointed back to trailheads instead of being fined as they ought to. Probably some on this board but would not admit to such publicly. More common with climbers and peak baggers. Same situation with all those setting up camps close to lake edges or making fires above elevation limits. Without enforcement there are some that will selfishly do whatever they want.

Trying to get permits on quota trails to leave Saturday mornings during summer is a significant impediment to weekend backpacking, a situation I've complained about for years at length. I do not like the current policies.

The fact the policy allows reserving walk up permits the day before means those of us Monday thru Friday 8-5 working people have zero chance of obtaining walk up backcountry permits on Saturday mornings for any popular trails all during summer. And for this person, that suks. Others will chime in "gee just go up Friday a day early to get the permit." For many of us PTO is limited each year with each day golden, not something we want to waste standing in some line. Many of we hard core mountain enthusiasts would be going up many weekends thus loosing so many days so that is not practical.

I've commented on this before that the policy ought to be changed so only for permits that begin on Saturday, walk up permits can only be obtained on that day and NOT the day before. The rest of the week let the current day before policy continue. If someone wants a guarantee they would need to set up a reservation. My suspicion is some of those in the national forest and national park offices making policy prefer the current policy because it guarantees Saturday mornings there are not lots of people lined up trying to get permits as was the situation a couple decades ago. In other words it discourages the people they serve from even bothering making their job's easier.

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Jimr
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Re: Some permit questions.

Post by Jimr » Fri Jun 20, 2014 4:59 pm

I've sat in line through the night on several occasions trying to get a permit day of, many years ago.
“Posterity! You will never know, how much it cost the present generation, to preserve your Freedom! I hope you will make a good use of it. If you do not, I shall repent in Heaven, that I ever took half the pains to preserve it.”

-John Adams

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Re: Some permit questions.

Post by AlmostThere » Fri Jun 20, 2014 5:23 pm

I try to make reservations in advance and make use of night drops in national forest wildernesses wherever I can, to make this easier.

If doing walk ups I will have backup plans and try for second or third choice if my first isn't available.

Cheating - no. We follow the quota rules and enter on the day we are supposed to. There is a fine, if the ranger wants to give it to you. And in that most popular area you are more likely to see one.... in Yosemite, a friend of mine in his younger, dumber years was found three days out - and marched out for three more days to his vehicle, fined, and escorted from the park.

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maverick
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Re: Some permit questions.

Post by maverick » Fri Jun 20, 2014 5:46 pm

Inyo NF:

Wilderness Regulations
In addition to all county, state and federal laws, the following acts are prohibited in
the Ansel Adams, John Muir, Hoover, Golden Trout and South Sierra wildernesses:

-Camping overnight in the Wilderness without a valid wilderness permit.
Day use of the Mt. Whitney Zone without a valid wilderness permit.
-Possessing or storing food, toiletries or refuse in a manner that allows bears or animals
access to it.
-Storing or leaving unattended equipment, personal property or supplies for more
than 24 hours.
-Camping within 100 feet of lakes, streams or trails (terrain permitting), and never less
than 50 feet of lakes or streams or within 25 feet of trails.
-Washing and/or discharging soap waste within 100 feet of lakes or streams.
-Depositing bodily waste within 100 feet of lakes, streams, campsites or trails.
-Discharging a firearm, except for emergencies and the taking of game as permitted
by California state law.
-Possessing or using a wheeled or mechanical device (bicycle, motorcycle, cart, etc);
exceptions for persons requiring wheelchairs allow wheeled devices but not motors.
-Shortcutting a switchback on any forest trail.
-Entering or using the wilderness in a group larger than 15 persons or with more than
25 head of pack or saddle stock.
-Stock are prohibited, Whitney Portal to Trail Crest. Hitching, tethering or tying pack
or saddle stock within 100 feet of lakes, streams, trails or campsites except while
loading or unloading.
-Leaving any debris, garbage or refuse within the wilderness.

The above include enforceable Forest Service regulations with maximum penalties
of $5,000 and/or 6 months in jail. Violation of permit terms or other Forest Service
regulations may also invalidate an issued permit, requiring a group to terminate
their visit.
Professional Sierra Landscape Photographer

I don't give out specific route information, my belief is that it takes away from the whole adventure spirit of a trip, if you need every inch planned out, you'll have to get that from someone else.

Have a safer backcountry experience by using the HST ReConn Form 2.0, named after Larry Conn, a HST member: http://reconn.org

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hybrid90
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Re: Some permit questions.

Post by hybrid90 » Mon Jun 23, 2014 7:50 am

Sorry if I touched on some sensitive issues about obtaining a permit and its uses. I've never really backpacked anywhere that requires a permit so was just wondering how it actually works.

The closest to wilderness backpacking we ever do is up at Pinecrest but that doesn't require a permit.

Ediza would be our first wilderness backpacking trip so super excited but looks like we'll be heading in Saturday - Tuesday.

Thanks everyone for chiming in :drinkers:

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Re: Some permit questions.

Post by Wandering Daisy » Mon Jun 23, 2014 8:50 am

Often there are cancellations. It is my understanding that you can get same day cancellations at 11AM. I usually give it a try, and if no permits are available, I have several "Plan B,s" for nearby trips. For example, go to Minaret Lake instead. It is a good short overnight trip. Or from Silver Lake you can get to Thousand Island Lake in a long day or stop short at one of the many lakes along Rush Creek. Or go to Duck Lake. The rangers at the desk at the Mammoth Lakes station will also have several other good ideas. Just bring area maps (or have them on your GPS). If you do not have a map needed you can buy the map at the visitor station. With enough flexibility, you almost always can go somewhere.

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hybrid90
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Re: Some permit questions.

Post by hybrid90 » Mon Jun 23, 2014 9:13 am

Wandering Daisy wrote:Often there are cancellations. It is my understanding that you can get same day cancellations at 11AM. I usually give it a try, and if no permits are available, I have several "Plan B,s" for nearby trips. For example, go to Minaret Lake instead. It is a good short overnight trip. Or from Silver Lake you can get to Thousand Island Lake in a long day or stop short at one of the many lakes along Rush Creek. Or go to Duck Lake. The rangers at the desk at the Mammoth Lakes station will also have several other good ideas. Just bring area maps (or have them on your GPS). If you do not have a map needed you can buy the map at the visitor station. With enough flexibility, you almost always can go somewhere.
Thank you for the suggestions. I will look into those areas as well. We would really like to do a Friday - Sunday so we don't have to take as much PTO as possible.

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