Spring 2017 Backpacking Cautionary Thread

[ERIC]

Just throwing this out there...

http://www.highsierratopix.com/communit ... 34&t=15982

[SSSdave]

Thanks R enjoyed watching that first video. Learned something with the listening to the rock hit the bottom trick.

Agree Buck should not have had his boots off. (:

The wisdom of boots on or off is not always so clear as I explain here:

http://www.highsierratopix.com/communit ... g&start=84

Suspect he has heavy duty leather boots as I note above.

Looks like I will indeed be going up for 8 days from Cherry Valley Dam to Styx Pass zone maybe next Tuesday as a longer period of warmer fair weather starts. That is also likely to melt a lot of snow which is my other reason for doing so. But that is also likely to increase chances for tragedies with PCT travelers as we have been discussing.

David

[mrphil]

Ok, so here's one rule on water crossings that nobody's mentioned, but that time and time again get's 'em in the end: If you're stupid or unfortunate, I'm not coming in after you. Good luck! Which is really why things like rock hopping for a selfie at the top of Vernal Falls gives you about 20' and 4 seconds of luck before it runs out completely.

And yes, AT, people don't like it when you're the bearer of reality...oh what a wonderful world it would be if all actions had no consequences. Stupid doesn't hurt often enough for some people.

[AlmostThere]

Just throwing this out there...

http://www.highsierratopix.com/communit ... 34&t=15982

Sounds like work. I nominate WD.

[oldranger]

Just picked up on this thread. Way too much debate that is off topic in my opinion that the important stuff got lost in the noise. One point I'd like to make in response to an earlier question is that yes it is possible to be on a snow bridge and not know it. Small creeks thru small meadows frequently have snow bridges only a couple of feet long and the snow bridge may only be a couple of feet thick but continuous cover over the creek for hundreds of feet in either direction. If crossing on skies it is usually not a problem but on foot if the snow on either side of the creek is several feet deep you could get injured if you fell thru or simply trapped in 6 inches of water with deep walls of snow around you.

[SSSdave]

Before crafting up something per Eric’s request, it would be useful for someone to write up an outline that lists elements various people have brought up. That would not include details, just a terse list of sub-topics. As OR noted, the thread has become too diluted. Just a few sub-topics for example:

• debilitating effects of cold water

• boot traction devices

• rope carabiner harness Tyrolean traverse of gear over streams

• wearing boots, water shoes while crossing

• dangers traveling over steep firm or icy snow

• ice puddling between snow humps in forest

Anyone up in timberline and crest areas of the High Sierra this pm into over night are going to be enduring some brutal conditions. Snow showers above 6.5k with 23F>28F low temps at 8k with 25>35mph wind and 70mph over Crest. Up in the Tahoe zone heavier snow, 4 inches. Reno NWS says a cold storm they only see about twice a decade.

I’ve seen all this before as such weather occasionally does occur especially into mid June and is a reason on longer trips at this time of year, much like mid to late September, I bring extra warm and protective clothing that adds to pack weight most would not.

David

[AlmostThere]

Too diluted? Welcome to dealing with people. We're good at disagreeing.

Add to the list: dealing with people who have different opinions than you but refuse to talk about them until they are trying to argue you into doing something their way.

Examples: "Let's glissade to the bottom of this extremely long snowbank with huge rocks at the bottom."
"No."
Resulted in a lost hiker, and a dead guy who did it anyway, stupidly, because he didn't want to hike all the way around via the trail.

"Let's cross this stream."
"Let's keep going. It's just a stomachache."
"I don't want to give up -- I only have this week of vacation all year."
Etc. Etc.

When the going gets tough, it isn't just that the tough get going -- the stubborn dig in their heels, the group suffers for it. There is a reason Freedom of the Hills has chapters about group dynamics and leadership. You can die for lack of them, because when conditions are extreme you can't just leave it up to the group.

If you haven't run up against this, you haven't hiked a lot with people.

[DAVELA]

Thx Hobbes,Mav for the stream+rope crossing advice.Altho i have great respect fir the power and terror water provides,this just re inforces my paranoia.
I remember turning back because i couldnt figure a way of making it across a 7ft wide section of the very fast moving s.fork.Combined with small and large submerged boulders and being solo,i figured i could easily break my ankle.So i turned around,got in my car and drove 300 miles back home.
I think i had also seen a large snowbridge but it just looked vulnerable and falling into a cold creek and buried by snow just doesnt warm the cockles of my heart.

[DAVELA]

Too diluted? Welcome to dealing with people. We're good at disagreeing.

Add to the list: dealing with people who have different opinions than you but refuse to talk about them until they are trying to argue you into doing something their way.

Examples: "Let's glissade to the bottom of this extremely long snowbank with huge rocks at the bottom."
"No."
Resulted in a lost hiker, and a dead guy who did it anyway, stupidly, because he didn't want to hike all the way around via the trail.

"Let's cross this stream."
"Let's keep going. It's just a stomachache."
"I don't want to give up -- I only have this week of vacation all year."
Etc. Etc.

When the going gets tough, it isn't just that the tough get going -- the stubborn dig in their heels, the group suffers for it. There is a reason Freedom of the Hills has chapters about group dynamics and leadership. You can die for lack of them, because when conditions are extreme you can't just leave it up to the group.

If you haven't run up against this, you haven't hiked a lot with people.

I solo hike.No compass skills.I stick to the trail.Sometimes backpack,always solo.
Went on 1 bpack with a Meetup group.The leader pooped out and needed others to carry her pack.Also present was an obnoxious,antagonistic alcoholic.Rounding it out was a dude who brought cast iron skillets,solar panels and a mini-stereo.They also insisted on an illegal bonfire above 10k.
Solitude no...urban experience,yes.

Saw a pct thru hiker in Eastside sports last month looking for snowshoes because she was postholing.She didnt know about televators or float tails.I thought to myself "how is it that an amateur like myself knows more about this stuff than a thru hiker?".Scary.

[rlown]

And all of that is why a pre-trip meeting is necessary for a group, especially if they are unknowns.

The trail hiking and no compass skills is a problem, because this is a Spring 2017 thread, most of the trails are buried.