I STOPPED HIKING THE PCT BECAUSE OF TOXIC MA

[Hobbes]

when a woman is with the man asking the questions they don’t like it much...I will let you draw your own conclusions.

Kristine, you and others may be amused to discover there is a significant sub-text to the OP's article that is related to an ongoing drama in the long distance hiking community. Logically, I think we can assume these kinds of cultural adversarial groups existed (long) before social media, but now the revelations are being exploited as a commercial endeavor by the tech companies.

Essentially there are two warring camps; I'll let readers draw their own conclusions:

https://www.instagram.com/p/BewxgEEgJSR ... ance_hikes

https://www.instagram.com/p/Bd_CQz6lRpo ... arrotquinn
https://carrotquinn.com/2018/01/17/my-e ... community/

[Wandering Daisy]

Sad that the PCT has devolved more to the social/town experience than the trail itself. Nobody says you have to be a part of any "trail family". Personally, if I were to do the PCT, I would avoid all the PCT groups in town and on the trail, just camp away from all that drama. I suspect that there is a lot more "drama" on the first 500 miles of the trail, than later, when 75% have dropped out. Nevertheless, I see her own unrealistic expectations a big problem and her age (your skin gets tougher as you age). Society as a whole has now been given "permission" to be coarser, due to the current political climate, reality shows and the internet. That all spills over into the PCT "community". To expect otherwise is unrealistic. However, if she simply would have blogged about the PCT "culture", and clearly labeled it as HER perception on how she was treated, and not tied it to her quitting the PCT or assuming her experience was the only "truth" (and lecture us on our perceived prejudices), I would be more sympathetic. And if she thinks it is bad, she should have backpacked in the 1960's and 70's when there were so many more barriers. In the long perspective, people are becoming more tolerant of diversity, not less.

[markskor]

Speaking from the perspective of one who has been on the PCT, (admittedly though did not finish - only 1700 miles). While on the trail, was accepted/ welcomed warmly/ was part of the "trail community" - some thoughts.

The trail itself is an ordeal...mentally and physically demanding. In my opinion the participants are generally divided into 3 types of hikers. Everyone soon enough finds themselves labeled by their trail actions and demeanor.

The first group is characterized just by their ability to put in the miles.

The chief judgment of course being capable of actually hiking.

Starting at Campo, through the beginning desert sections, 25+ miles a day, (known as doing 20's or 30's) quickly separates you from those not capable of such agony. Those that can hike these miles (with a smile) generally gravitate toward each other. By the time you get to Tehachapi Pass, your acceptance (or not) into this "elite" group has pretty much been decided by your recent hiking style. You either can do it... or you are labeled as one who can't, and somewhat ostracized. All PCT hikers talk/ gossip about everything.
Hopscotching along, you continually encounter the same 200 - 300, like-minded individuals...agreed many (both men and women) are self-proclaimed a$$holes but all are generally accepted into this group just because they can hike the hike. By the time you hit Yosemite (~mile 942), everyone having made it this far without skipping are mostly accepted as a trail equals.

The second group consists of those not capable of consistently doing 20+ miles a day...(BTW, doing this many miles a day is necessary if you expect to finish the trail in a single season.) Many in group 2 will say that they are doing the PCT but are not generally accepted by group 1 due to their inability to put in the long miles, or they have a tendency to spend too much time partying at places like Hiker Heaven (mile 454), Casa De Luna (mile 474), or Hiker Town (mile 516).

I suspect that there is a lot more "drama" on the first 500 miles of the trail, than later, when 75% have dropped out.

The third group consists of those in Group 2 that readily skip major portions of the trail and hitch ahead to meet group 1 members further on up the PCT, (commonly known as yellow-lining), thinking that by being among these hikers they will be embraced...not so. Your actions (or lack of) on the trail will determine how accepted you will be among PCT peers.

BTW, proudly being a past PCT Group 1 alum - (just another dirt-bag a$$hole with attitude), I have been accepted out on the PCT tables in front of the Tuolumne Store, still part of the elite crowd. The hikers I've met there are astute and self-policing...calling out BS to those not accepted, and even though in the minority, the women of group 1 found there can be the cruelest and surprisingly, the most vocal.

[Hobbes]

Seems like the more things change, the more they stay the same. It's hard to imagine there wasn't an equal amount - if not more - drama among the early "trail families" in the SC. Consider too that they all came from the same social circles in SF & Oakland; there were probably endless variations of love affairs, business dealings & generic rivalries. Of course, everyone probably tried to be on their best behavior for group activities, but human nature ...



As for competition, seeking first ascents, and directing a few digs at rivals, what did the sage poet mean by:
“Well-seasoned limbs will enjoy the climb of 9,000 feet required for this direct route, but soft, succulent people should go the mule way."

https://www.thoughtco.com/climbing-fact ... ney-755937

[Hobbes]

The hikers I've met there are astute and self-policing...call out BS to those not accepted, and even though in the minority, the women of group 1 found there can be the cruelest and surprisingly, the most vocal.

Well dude, you certainly nailed it, especially with regard to the women. The genesis of this interesting drama goes back to 2014 PCT. This is when Carrot Quinn (CQ) attached herself to the very fastest group 1 that year, led by Not-A-Chance (NAC). You can read through CQ's blog here: https://carrotquinn.com/pct-2014/ (CQ hiked the 2013 PCT as a group 2 hiker; the tale of her strange and erotic journey from Campo to Manning is the basis of her book: https://www.amazon.com/Thru-Hiking-Will ... B00W4RICAM)

So here we have the queen bee (NAC) doing 30-40 mile days. This pace typically allows her to get into town before the boys by a day, so she proceeds to party while waiting for them. (If you read the blog, you can also get the sense the boys like NAC, and she likewise likes the boys.)

OTOH, CQ is obviously the weakest member of the bunch, and no one seems to take any real interested in her. If you read the journal on day 35, you may notice the group tried to ditch her @ Kearsarge. Because of significant childhood trauma, CQ does some crazy things to catch up. Later, she complains that no one listens to her input with respect to hiking plans. Finally, she admits she probably won't ever be friends with anyone after the trail is complete.

After this, the relationship between NAC & CQ continues to worsen. NAC's posse are guys who have set FKNT records, and are attempting to carve out businesses in the thru-hiking world. CQ is viewed as an interloper, someone trying to ride the hype train while promoting her own version of events. This was percolating along until it culminated in labeling CQ a "fake hiker". To round out matters, Vanessa, the OP who quit because of "toxic masculinity", is part of the CQ group.

So what we have here is the (un)usual mix of sex & money, where relationship rivalries intersect with business interests in the still rapidly growing thru-hiker market. The reason I know about it, is because I innocently followed along CQ's 2014 blog. Then, in combination of my own UL gear research and development (for personal use), I kept coming across the names of a few people who were really making a name for themselves. Finally, the light bulb went on when I realized who the two opposing camps are.

[AlmostThere]

Treating people like s**t because they can't keep up with you, are not "in your league" or whatever, is still treating people poorly and behaving badly. Just tell the poor girl to take care of herself and move on.

High school drama stinks, and you either elevate your perspective and move on from it, or keep circling the drama queens trying to prove yourself.

Go find your tribe, whoever they may be, and be happy.

[John Harper]

By the way, I cannot stand Sheryl Straid's writing. Also did not appreciate Bill Bryson (I think the name is correct?) who wrote about the App. Tr. (also did not finish).

Agree wholeheartedly on both accounts. Still not sure why Bryson's book was so popular, not even that well written IMHO.

John

[Gazelle]

Wow Hobbes people take this hiking stuff seriously, me I like to hike, I am not a social person so I usually go alone and off trail and have no real care what people think of me other than to be respectful to others (do unto others as you want done unto you). It amazes me how many people try to capitalize on their hiking, my theory is you should be out there for yourself because you love it! I really don’t look at the blogs as most of what they write about is in town, what they ate, not the terrain and beautiful features, some don’t even know the names of the features they blog about!

[maverick]

So, when is the new PCT reality show starting?

[Wandering Daisy]

I can understand (but not necessarily agree with) the dislike of serious thru-hikers of those who really do not belong out there. The entire PCT experience has been drastically degraded by becoming too crowded and a social/party event. I do not blame all the unqualified hikers (it is not a good experience for them either) , rather the permit system that cannot seem to control the numbers, hype and commercialization (trail towns raking in the money, as well as shameless money begging blogs) that has allowed this to evolve. I personally do not care what the mix of qualified vs unqualified are on the PCT, as long as total numbers are reduced. This is beginning to degrade my own wilderness experience.

Hobbes- women who can complete the PCT (breaking stereotypes) may be nasty (not that I advocate being nasty to anyone) to those who are not qualified because they have worked really hard to keep up with the best. The unqualified who are on the trail allow skeptics point to ALL women as incapable. I worked in a man's environment (coal mining) for over ten years, and had to work hard to earn respect. I resented the women hired as tokens (because we were a federal contractor) who could not do their jobs. It gave all of us a bad name as well as leaving me to pick up the slack for no extra pay.

You want acceptance on the PCT - then EARN IT! It is not an entitlement. Kindness and civility are an entitlement, and general respect due to any human being (this is what the blogger could expect and it is too bad some on the trail did not give her that), but not the kind of respect, acceptance and recognition that goes with meeting and exceeding the bar of performance.