Petition To Change Back To Pre-Covid Walk-in Permit System

[schmalz]

Hey fellow HST'ers,

I wish we could get the old permit system back too. But like so many things with this pandemic, I don't think we're going back to the old normal. There's too much incentive for agencies to move in this direction anyways...

With that said, I have created a tool to help me out with this and I would like to share it with specific likeminded friends/family. So, if you're a HST regular and would like something to help secure cancelled permits, send me a message please.

[kylekuzma]

With that said, I have created a tool to help me out with this and I would like to share it with specific likeminded friends/family. So, if you're a HST regular and would like something to help secure cancelled permits, send me a message please.

Would love to see what youre building

[michaelzim]

PLEASE POST ANY Rec.Gov UNRESOLVED ISSUES OR SUGGESTIONS for Sierra National Forest on the following thread:

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=22008

Thanks much ~ Michaelzim

[Suzy]

Petition is closed so I can't sign, but does anyone know what is happening with this?

The idea that people can only go backpacking (Inyo) if they book a permit two weeks ahead seems terribly restrictive and also likely wasteful of permits. (If someone doesn't show, that permit will just go to waste is my understanding).

We've been spending a month per year in the Sierra since 2010 (missed past two seasons thanks covid) and hope to do that in Aug - Sept.2022. But we normally rely on walk-up permits - same day or next day. We like to be flexible to work around conditions and our own fitness, and we like that we are using "crumbs" and not taking permits from others (we're taking permits that might otherwise not be used).

Does anyone know how the system worked this year (just to help with planning in case the same system gets used again in 2022). If you book a "walkup" permit two weeks ahead, is there any flexibility with that? Can you move it back a day or two or switch it to a different trailhead within the two week window? And was there much competition for these "two week ahead" permits? - were they hard to get?

When will the authorities decide on this and is there anything we can do to support the request for a return to true "walkup" permits ? Can we write a letter to anyone?

(Lots of questions)

Best wishes to all.

[michaelzim]

@Suzy Regarding Inyo and how the permits thing went this past year/summer. If you have not already you can glean a lot from slogging through this whole thread. There are a lot of musings and info herein.

Seeing as Rec.Gov is here to stay - and there are some sound reasons for that, like overwhelmed staff who cannot deal with the volume of permits the 'old fashioned way'. Seeing stuffed full pickup boxes crammed with permits I can relate to how it would help reduce the burden on NF staff for us to fill in our own basic info (and guesstimate itineraries), then let them deal with the actual permit issuance aspects.

The complaints have been primarily around unavailable "W" permits, unavailable last minute permits, the "ghost bookings" and "no shows" robbing access, the need for "thru permits" when heading off trail nowhere near typical entry point destinations. And more...Again, you will find info on much of that in the many pages here.

Just a snippet from my observations though.
I mainly use the west side entries to avoid the zoo on the east side. The volume of backpackers is huge at the east trailheads. Even so, when I was looking at Rec.Gov numerous times throughout the summer there were, very surprisingly, a number of times when last minute permits came up for even popular Inyo entries like Kearsarge. I was not expecting that.
One tip though, is that cancelled permits did not show up until some time after the initial "opening rush" so were there later in the morning and often lasting well into the day.

You can indeed write to the permits folks at Inyo c/o their website portal, though from what I have gleaned they seem to be very aware of all the issues we have brought up. Even the "ghosting and no shows" for example have earned me this response: "Well, it is really hard to stop that from happening, but the good side is that it reduces actual numbers and TH people pressure, making it less of a zoo than it could be!" In other words, not a helluva lot of incentive to go with the heavy fines or hoopla to try and control that better!
Catch 22.

Best ~ Michaelzim

[wildhiker]

I was perusing the Yosemite Park wilderness web pages and was happy to see that in 2022 they are returning to their traditional system: 60% of permits can be reserved in advance, and 40% are true "walk-up", available in-person only starting at 11 am on the day before you want to enter. Reserved permits must also be picked up in person, by 10 am on the day of entry, so no-shows will be available for others starting at 10 am on day of entry.

The only real change from pre-Covid practice is how reservations are made. They are now done on recreation.gov, but instead of having a race to see who has the fastest fingers at 7 am when a particular day's permits become available, they are instead running weekly lotteries 24 weeks in advance. You have a whole week to submit your reservation requests for any entry day 24 weeks out. At the end of each week, they run the lottery to randomly select from the requests made during that week. Any reservable permits not allocated in the lottery are then available for reservation at any time up until one week before the entry date, at which point unreserved permits get added to the walk-up pool.

See specifics at: https://www.nps.gov/yose/planyourvisit/wpres.htm

I think this will be a really good way to allocate the permits between those who can plan ahead and those who need last-minute flexibility.
-Phil

[balzaccom]

Seems like a step in the right (backwards) direction!

[Wandering Daisy]

Now if only Inyo and other entities would do the same!

[mkbgdns]

yosemite conservancy, which ran the wilderness permits for YNP, always had a weekly lottery months in advance, for batches of reservable permits. YNP has moved their permits over to recreation.gov, who are continuing that practice. a fairer way to allocate a scarce commodity. covid had eliminated walk-ups, which have been reinstated, but we'll see...

[Wandering Daisy]

Yosemite required you to pick up your reserved permit in person even with COVID restrictions and rangers/kiosks were maintained. Adding first-come walk-ins are not much different, so I doubt any COVID changes would close their offices, unless it was something drastic.

SEKI unofficially had walk-ins last summer; I stood in line to pick up my permit behind someone who was doing a first-come walk-in. Sierra NF?(Blackcap Basin permits) also had in person permit pickup, but their offices and hours were more limited.

Inyo had No personal permit pick-up last summer. They would have to change their operations significantly to accommodate walk-ins. I am curious about their plans for this summer. What I would really like to see are "pass through" quotas on Inyo trailheads, that separates those staying on the east side of the passes (Inyo NF) and those who pass through to camp on SEKI or other entities on the west side.