A shout-out to the 64year old studs of HST

[Gogd]

When you are passionate about someone or something, you find within yourself the will to engage that interest, one way or another, or drop dead trying! Those of us still kicking up trail dust well after the silver anniversary marking the first time we shouldered packs are afflicted with that gusto for the mountains and outdoors.

I remember as a 11yo youth my first 14er (Whitney) thinking this is the toughest thing I have ever done. So much suffering, but worth it! My recent trip up Langley with my athletic daughter was even more rewarding, but with pretty much the same amount of misery. Both jaunts covered ground at about the same speed (err I mean slowness). Peer pressure kept me from quitting in my youth; while on the Langley trip I announced to my daughter I was quitting seven different times while on the final push along the ridge crest leading to the peak of Langley. But summit fever beckons one to prevail! At least I didn't suffer AMS on the Langley trip. We had the entire trail from Cottonwood Lake 4 to Langley's summit and back to ourselves. Glorious! That Langley excursion was only the third time in my life I puked from physical exhaustion, leaving my cookies at the top of Old Army Pass on the way down. Both daughter and I laughed at my pathetic constitution. She said I seem to prefer death over giving up. Strong will, big lungs but small brain. I didn't know it then, but six weeks after Langley I would find myself being wheeled on a gurney from the ER, on my way to the cath lab for two cardio stents. I am in much better health, for the time being.

I do not relate this to come across as some sort of uber fossil, rather that most everyone who backpacks for years and decades find all trips with more than a modicum of ambition are always a physical challenge. The difference is some of us fossils have thus far dodged truly debilitating health issues, survived our own stupidity, and are still willing to endure suffering as beasts of burden well into old age, because we really dig the outdoor experience. The crucial difference between that 11yo and me as the 70+ fossil is I can tolerate the suffering more, because years of experience have taught me what to expect and how to cope. You find a way to compensate for whatever vitality is lost to age. The desire remains strong as ever to get up there! It is that level of passion, pluck and willingness to endure some discomfort that keeps us old packers on the trail.

Ed

P.S. I find lousy food and PITA companionship to be more challenging than the mountains themselves.

[paul]

As a member of that 1959-born cohort, I hope I am not dragging the average down too much. Some of you guys are making me look bad!. The funny thing I find is that I seem to be able to go uphill almost like the old days - well, like in my 40's anyway - not like in my early 20's when pack weight was just not a factor (gallon jar of spaghetti sauce ? sure, no problem!). But now the steep downhills really take it out of me. And perhaps even stranger than that is that I seem to do better at altitude than at sea level when it comes to muscles and joints. I wonder whether being slowed down by the reduced oxygen means that my joints and muscles have an easier time of it? When I do a 12 mile local sea level dayhike with a 20 or 25 lb pack, I have more joint and muscle soreness afterward than I feel after a day of that length up high on a backpacking trip.

[balzaccom]

The knees. It's always the knees. And downhill is where the knees really pay the price. I never used hiking poles because most of the people who carry them do just that--they carry them. But now I carry a single hiking pole in the outside pocket of my pack and use it on any downhill. To save my knees.

Hiking poles--the new ice axe?

[cgundersen]

Hi Y'All,
About 6 or 7 years ago, my old college roommate and I started noticing a big uptick in the number of "mature" backpackers we'd see on and off trail. And it wasn't just the brief hello in passing, because my pal and I still use ancient, external-frame A16 packs (old dogs don't learn new tricks). And those packs immediately trigger reverential comments about the good old days from lots of our fellow hikers who would reminisce about their vintage Kelty, or Jansport or REI packs. The common denominator seems to be that these were folk who had developed a love of backpacking and in retirement were finding more time to get back to nature. Ed summed it up pretty well: "Strong will, big lungs but small brain." Or, in our case, we find that the end justifies the means: if you have to drag your sorry buns over one more ridge, just do it.

To the two Pauls: first, I have no idea why your muscle/joint physiology prefers high elevation to sea level; maybe the stunning scenery triggers an endorphin rush that compensates for the activity? Maybe akin to John Denver's Rocky Mountain high? Second, on the knee beating, I keep hearing that hiking poles will add years to my backpacking lifespan. I've not added poles yet, but they're on the radar. Cameron

[CAMERONM]

50 is the new 40
60 is the new 50
70 is the new 60
80 is 80, and it sucks-

[giantbrookie]

A few more notes and thoughts.

Certainly being a geologist helps, given the field tradition associated with the profession and subject area, but field training in geology has declined enormously in the last four decades and folks have speculated as to why that is the case. Most explanations center on trends in research and the two biggest ones are as follows: 1. It is more time consuming to publish stuff that involves a lot of fieldwork and geologic mapping. This is bad news for (a) a PhD student or post-doc who wants to tally a bunch of publications to be a viable candidate for a faculty position, (b) an untenured faculty who needs publications to get tenure, (c) a research grant awardee who wants to chalk up lots of papers fro the grant quickly so as to justify funding for the next grant. 2. There is an elitism in many (most?) high research establishments that it isn't cutting edge science unless cutting edge technology and associated methodology is used in the study. Since fieldwork is inherently low tech it is seen as intellectually backward by many. This negatively impacts research funding for field-intensive projects. This all results in fewer and fewer PhD's having a strong field base, so that there are fewer young faculty that are capable, let alone willing, to teach field geology.

Nonetheless, the field aspect is still what attracts many students to the field of geology, so geology does tend to draw on a population that is more outdoor fit than the average. That having been said, I can tell you that the strongest hikers on Topix are every bit as strong as the strongest-hiking geologists of the same age range.

As we are all well aware, physical fitness among younger folks has been declining globally, so we don't have as many younger geologists in elite hiking shape as in past years. This differs from country and region, however. The European and Canadian geologists in the Newfoundland group are all very strong hikers, which is why I trained extra hard going into the 2023 field season there.

As for training, I've found I've had to continually adjust as I age, owing to injuries, wear and tear, etc. Even when younger I found that running stadium stairs tended to get me in better hiking form than my dad's distance running, which was why my dad changed his training to hill climbs. However, my dad didn't believe in strength and rehab training, so his knees and hip started to give out as he got into his 60s. Because I first seriously injured my knee at age 17 and had my first knee operation at 18, I learned about strength training and rehab very early as I was driven to get back on the basketball court and play at the highest possible level. So I started out doing a lot of quad training, focusing on my weaker side (ie the injured side). My back injury at age 21 would eventually lead to my going all out on the plank starting in my latest 40s. When Dawn outhiked me in 2019, possibly because I wasn't 100 percent following prostate cancer surgery I embraced distance running (had never tried before) because she is a runner. This worked for awhile until I found what many seniors have, which is that lots of running (was putting in 20-30 miles/week) is tough on the knees. This also corresponded to a time when I couldn't do my quad training because gyms were closed because of COVID. So I had a lull in my hiking training which got worse with the hormone therapy and resulting injuries (including right knee) in 2022. This was when Lee's suggestion led to me doing weighted hill climbs. It also helped that I got back into the weight room and I could work the quads again. This is also why my descents are still OK. Those descents would blow out the knees at the speed I take them if I didn't strengthen the quads in the weight room.

As far as mindset goes, I think it is summed up by the beautiful poem by Samuel Washington Allen dedicated to Satchel Paige "To Satch":
"Sometimes I feel like I will never stop
Just go on forever
Till one fine mornin
I'm gonna reach up and grab me a handfulla stars
Swing out my long lean leg
And whip three hot strikes burnin down the heavens
And look over at God and say
How about that"

Speaking of which, my age-defiant inspiration in sports was a great pitcher who came along much later than Satchel Paige. And that inspiration is Nolan Ryan.

[Gogd]

I keep hearing that hiking poles will add years to my backpacking lifespan. I've not added poles yet, but they're on the radar.

I prefer a staff, finding it more ergonomic, and less a nuisance to deal with while under way. Especially going downhill. Commercially available staffs are too heavy, so I made my own. This link describes the DYI fabrication of the staff:
https://www.highsierratopix.com/communi ... hp?t=23209
You can always test the concept of using a staff with a low commitment cost, by obtaining a ¾" dia. green, plastic coated, nursery tree stake from a hardware or garden shop. It is heavier than my UL staff, but is lighter than commercial hiking staffs and will demonstrates the ergonomic advantages of a staff over trekking poles.

Ed

[giantbrookie]

I keep hearing that hiking poles will add years to my backpacking lifespan. I've not added poles yet, but they're on the radar.

I prefer a staff, finding it more ergonomic, and less a nuisance to deal with while under way. Especially going downhill. Commercially available staffs are too heavy, so I made my own. This link describes the DYI fabrication of the staff:
https://www.highsierratopix.com/communi ... hp?t=23209
You can always test the concept of using a staff with a low commitment cost, by obtaining a ¾" dia. green, plastic coated, nursery tree stake from a hardware or garden shop. It is heavier than my UL staff, but is lighter than commercial hiking staffs and will demonstrates the ergonomic advantages of a staff over trekking poles.

Ed

Ed, Thanks for posting this. It is very interesting indeed. My dad always used a hardwood walking stick which he had made, which was, of course, much heavier than your staff and lacks the length adjustment. Nonetheless as I've tried commercial walking sticks and trekking poles (single: I like having one hand free at all times) I've been frustrated by: 1. their poor durability--every last one we've (me and Dawn) used has eventually broken (at one of the joints). 2. way too much flex for stability and support (the springy ones are also a total no-no). I have found that I like using a pole/stick on trailed ascents, and especially trailed descents (helps impact). Off trail, unless it's really easy ground, I want BOTH hands free for balance and use, so I will collapse the commercial pole/stick and place it in my pack.

I guess one of the keys to custom making a staff, in addition to the choice of tube material, is the quality of the length adjustment assembly. This is a major point of vulnerability of commercial systems--both in terms of things getting loose and in terms of breakage. The commercial poles are designed for relatively light impacts. I've thought of doing a lighter material version of a single-length staff (ie modern version of my dad's old school walking stick) and thought a lot about it on the Hetch Hetchy trip where the poor performance of mine and Dawn's commercial poles was yet another physical annoyance on a physically difficult trip. Whereas I like the support of a pole/staff on tough trailed ascents with a full pack, I benefit enormously from the impact reduction afforded by a pole/staff while descending.

[cgundersen]

CAMERONM: I ran across my first confirmed 80-something in Miter basin earlier this month. Based on the commentary here, I'd not be surprised to hear that several of these 64-somethings are still going strong 16 years from now. 26 years from now may be a different story?
John: One of my geology pals has complained that it's hard to get geological research published in high impact journals unless it includes comparisons/contrasts with events/findings concerning celestial objects. That requirement seriously limits field work and almost certainly contributes to the decline you described. Still, Craig is a dyed-in-the-wool field guy and I admire him for that bias. Like all of us, he is continually making adjustments for the battering to which he has subjected his knees and back, but he loves getting into the mountains and deserts and still takes students whenever he can. As for Satchel & Nolan, they are legends on a very different field; great poem!
Ed: I've seen some amazing walking sticks (staffs) in Europe, but I'll have to do some experimenting when (and if) I decide to go that route. My suspicion is that I'd be prone to tripping over any extra gear, or that I'd forget to grab it after a rest stop.
Cameron

[michaelzim]

Don't despair Ian...As you may recall I do not do too well with too much altitude gain in the first few days of a trip. However, just got back from close to 4,000ft. of gain on the first day c/o Pine Creek TH to French Lake (with added uphill side-track). Being of 1950 vintage the effects of gravity are definitely present but regular Stairmaster workouts are seemingly providing enough 'strength' to keep going, and in this case improve my baseline. I'm sure you will max out your 'training' or trips to get back in stellar shape re your injury and go blasting up Taboose again in fine style.

Yeah, your friend Frank has it right with 64 though. The Beatles got it right too:
"Will you still need me. Will you still feed me. When I'm 64"
I can assure you that most Brits will not be doing high Sierras hikes at 64 either. Images of false teeth and wobbly joints abound!

Like Frank my sense of "balance" has changed now though it is more a "feeling of balance" that has been affected. This comes to play with my other nemesis = exposure on steep slopes! (Like Libby Pass ). I have begun to discover that it may be due to vision loss, not balance per se. When I wear my long-distance glasses I am less prone to feeling "airy and queasy" on a slope as I can see more sharply. That seems to help as my body feels less at loose ends or something. I'm due for cataract surgery and inter-ocular lenses soon I suppose and that may actually make quite a difference!

I guess the moral of that age story is: "Don't put off trips that can be done today for some elusive tomorrow!"

Best ~ Michaelzim